Reputation roleplay is boring

Anything to say about roleplay? Want to share a story? This is the right place.

Moderator: Wizards

Message
Author
Herst
Master
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#21 Post by Herst » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:23 pm

All I can say to the above post is this:

If you are not a devout follower of X god and you die, why would they waste their time giving you a new body? They wouldn't care to much about you if you were not achieving their goals for them.

User avatar
gojin
Master
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:23 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#22 Post by gojin » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:31 pm

All I can say to the above post is this:

If you are not a devout follower of X god and you die, why would they waste their time giving you a new body? They wouldn't care to much about you if you were not achieving their goals for them.
I personally wont mind my char being subject to permadeath(not allowed to res) if thats the price of playing a char that thinks for himself.

User avatar
tessa
Overlord
Posts: 1093
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:03 am
Location: My own imagination.

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#23 Post by tessa » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:42 pm

isengoo wrote:Of course, one might say that this is catering to the hack'n'slash crowd. To that I say, so what? People who prefer to not kill monsters have other, less dangerous avenues by which to gain reputation. I am simply claiming that these avenues are exceedingly boring. Give hack'n'slashers a tangible reason to hack'n'slash, and the problems go away.
A difference of opinion. I find hack and slash to be utterly boring. I would much prefer to see something such as leatherworking, smithing, metalcrafting, woodworking, cooking, a trading system, or etc. adding into the mud than the umpteeth reason to go kill 500 goblins.

And no, I don't see the problem going away. You still have the groups that don't give a crap to RP about gods, karma, reputation, actions, or whatever else. They still only want to go out and kill 500 goblins. It's just, now maybe a few of them will say 'I do it for charts' instead of 'I do it for perfect sword'.

Basically, the problems I would like to see resolved a bit more:

People who follow a god but don't understand anything about that god, or follow the god because their friends do and don't really care if what they do on a daily basis is becoming or blasphemous for such a follower.

People who have bad karma or reputation and simply don't care. And if they're too lazy to find ways to fix it, but are afraid to explore outside of giving Volog a few coins outside of ogre and trolls hunts, then I feel it's their own faults. I've never once had a problem fixing karma, both through remedial tasks and through combat.

But most of the situations I've seen, the excuse is usually 'god xxx wants me to be evil/good, but I don't feel like adjusting what I do, so I'm just going to ignore it'. To which I then ask why they follow a god that's apparently incompatible with their roleplay. But I forgot, it's because it's what their friends do. Which brings about that other complex:

Why aren't you hunting your guild enemy? Because he's my friend.
Why are you hanging out with an outlaw of the city you're supposed to defend? Because he's my friend.
Why are you hanging out with a follower of an enemy god (or guild enemy)? Because he's my friend.

It saddens me a bit to see the purpose of some guilds become unclear because everyone's afraid of being mean to each other, even if some situations dictate it. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't think everyone has to be at each other's throats all the time, but things go a bit grey when friends and enemies are meshed into one, and everyone's treated the same because everyone's nice.
As for Karma: Its imperfect.
This is true for the gods that don't have absolute good or evil (in which case it's easy to keep yourself capped on that end of the spectrum) but I see something wrong when a follower of a good god has evil karma, or vice versa. Even if you're not right on the dot with karma, there's something to be said if you're not even on the chart.
I personally wont mind my char being subject to permadeath(not allowed to res) if thats the price of playing a char that thinks for himself.
If the char can't agree with any of the gods, then this sounds like someone to me who would be better suited to follow none of them.

As mentioned in another thread, favour is not what you think of the god, but what the god thinks of you. And if you do things that constantly anger the god (which is suggested if you have opposite of the preferred karma), one could ask how you're even able to stay in favour. Except, perhaps, that frequent sacrifices are just enough to keep the god from smiting you. Not necessarily because you're being a good follower, but because you're being a use even if you're repulsive.

ganandorf
Overlord
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:35 am
Location: winnipeg, canada

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#24 Post by ganandorf » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:11 am

Following no god should be a viable option, but when one does the problem is its hard for this person to seek our resurrection. Once after doing alot of god changes as a newbie on ganon, went from taniel, to asral, to sathonys, to zhakrin, i had lost favour in all those gods, and was a follower of now god. So none of the main gods would resurrect me. I had to go to a temple that i had not gone to before ever, had never devoted to them. But apparently (gwen) still favoured me enough to resurrect me. After this resurrection of course i would have no favour in any gods, making me a follower of no god. Also meaning i would not be able to be resurrected if i die. Which, could be considered permadeath gojin ;)
Meow

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2782
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#25 Post by Delia » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:34 am

You can maintain enough favour to be resurrected that is not enough for conversion.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates
"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

ganandorf
Overlord
Posts: 1085
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:35 am
Location: winnipeg, canada

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#26 Post by ganandorf » Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:41 am

Oh yeah, that works :P
Meow

triska
Veteran
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:57 pm
Location: Dunoon Scotland

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#27 Post by triska » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:19 am

Going back to what I said origianlly. If Triska gets a bad reputation from those or one in particular that cannot be bothered to correct theirs it means Triska cannot get repairs of clothing/armours/weapons.

It also means that those that care about their reputations too would then start to avoid her or not team with her when there is an adventure to be had with a group of people because she in turn would bring their reputation down.

Either way she ends up the one penalised from the one(s) that dont care about it.

Throwing heads/skulls in the pit doenst alter reputation but does give favour which if she needed it for a resurrection is also necessary.

Karma in the god is affected by the good deeds done in that gods opinion .. giving numerous coins to volog after running off nibblers gremlins and goblins and selling mountains of armours weapons herbs and anything else shops care to buy gives her a horrible karma with her god for doing good deeds for her city.

This is what is boring and repetitious and she cares enough to check her reputation / karma and keep a good name with her fellow citizens and visitors to the city who check out to see what type of person she is.... ohhh that Triska is an evil bitch that may backstab you if you turn your back on her isnt going to endear her to any or many so she makes sure citizens dont tell people enquiring about her dont hear bad things.
Laughter is the best gift to give anyone and its free!

User avatar
tessa
Overlord
Posts: 1093
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:03 am
Location: My own imagination.

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#28 Post by tessa » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:43 am

triska wrote:Throwing heads/skulls in the pit doenst alter reputation
It does.

User avatar
sun
Master
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:27 pm

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#29 Post by sun » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:10 am

triska wrote:Going back to what I said origianlly. If Triska gets a bad reputation from those or one in particular that cannot be bothered to correct theirs it means Triska cannot get repairs of clothing/armours/weapons.
Apart from my suggestions of the code change..

It is of course up to you, but what happens with people who cause trouble for Triska? Obviously her "friends" do her a big disfavour. Shouldn't Triska ask herself if she still wants to stick around those people? Or try to make them change? Of course, if she is now one of them with just as bad rep.. it might not work. In either case, I bet you can find a decent cleric of Asral to throw the trash out if they don't want to walk on their own.. nobody in the city would object.

User avatar
tessa
Overlord
Posts: 1093
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:03 am
Location: My own imagination.

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#30 Post by tessa » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:30 am

Or try your luck at finding new and more compatible friends, if possible.

amrat
Apprentice
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:09 pm

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#31 Post by amrat » Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:58 am

I honestly do not get this thread.

If your reputation in a locale is supposed to be a value you can set yourself there should be a command for it. Otherwise I'd consider "correcting it" an abuse of the limitations of the system.

My biggest problems with the reputation system as it is are the beggars, the huge impact of any conflict with a beggar-briber has on your own reputation and in general the huge variations you can achieve with a single action. If all you needed was coins to make you respected by everyone there wouldn't have been any revolts or revolutions. Of course there should be an effect, but if you murder people and then give some to charity it shouldn't make you popular overnight.

My version of the reputation system:
  • Limit the reputation you can get from beggars per reboot to a small enough value. Make it non-linear. (giving a gold every week should help you more than a copper every week, but not 1000 times more, log_10 ->3 times more perhaps?)
  • Add some messages to cities etc about people glaring at the people with bad reputation etc. Should be enough to let people know that their presence is not appreciated and gives everyone present the chance to give in to peer pressure.
  • Try to get rid of the feedback loops that amplify the reputation changes (someone with a slightly bad rep fights someone with slightly good reputation, attacking someone with good rep makes you worse with every time, while attacking the slightly bad rep makes you better (?) leading to one saint and one scum of the earth while it should probably give them both slightly bad reputation eventually, neither near scum of the earth)
  • +1 Add a skill like "storytelling" that works a bit like preaching, except you affect peoples' reputation instead. The effect should be very small but several bards telling stories about the nasty things the shaolin do in their temples should clearly affect the reputation. Yes, it can be abused but what can't and at least the abuse can be considered IC.
@Amrat

Herst
Master
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#32 Post by Herst » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:17 am

sun wrote:
triska wrote:Going back to what I said origianlly. If Triska gets a bad reputation from those or one in particular that cannot be bothered to correct theirs it means Triska cannot get repairs of clothing/armours/weapons.
Apart from my suggestions of the code change..

It is of course up to you, but what happens with people who cause trouble for Triska? Obviously her "friends" do her a big disfavour. Shouldn't Triska ask herself if she still wants to stick around those people? Or try to make them change? Of course, if she is now one of them with just as bad rep.. it might not work. In either case, I bet you can find a decent cleric of Asral to throw the trash out if they don't want to walk on their own.. nobody in the city would object.

What if her problem is the Clerics of Asral ;)
They sometimes had a bad reputation from stinking awfully and not caring to wash. Well, coupled with some other things I would assume.

User avatar
sun
Master
Posts: 163
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:27 pm

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#33 Post by sun » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:52 pm

Herst wrote:What if her problem is the Clerics of Asral ;)
They sometimes had a bad reputation from stinking awfully and not caring to wash. Well, coupled with some other things I would assume.
I only picked the Asral clerics because they should have a history of good standing in Arborea. But I am not sure if that is true, in game. If the clerics of Asral like to act like scum in "their" city, I suppose Triska has bigger problems. The question is why Triska hangs around them if she does not like them...

krelji
Hero
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 am

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#34 Post by krelji » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:14 pm

From what I know IC'ly the char Triska has problems with isn't a cleric. It's in fact
a char who follows her when she's around and hangs around at places where
she goes. Leaving the room doesn't solve the problem if said person follows you
around, and if that char is incapable of understanding the message 'to get lost'
then I can understand her frustration.

There are a few things that I dislike about the reputation system. I don't like it that
my char had to become more than just a little paranoid regarding his own rep, or
that I have to ask NPC's about the rep of other chars just to be able to discern if
I need to start working on my own rep again or not.
I hate the fact that the reputation system turned the job of being a beggar into one
of the best paid jobs in the game. Limiting the usefulness of giving coins to beggars
might fix this problem, but it would in turn make it a lot more difficult to fix your own
reputation if it got ruined by talking with someone of a rather low reputation for too
long.
The skill suggested by Amrat sounds interesting, but I'd rather see a skill called
'streetwise' that allows you to check the reputation of people without having to
ask NPC's about it.
All knowledge is heresy. Yes, you heard me correctly.
It is the nature of religions to thrive on ignorance.

Herst
Master
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#35 Post by Herst » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:12 pm

Third edit for "tact":

Ok, I do not mean to flame anyone here but I do not see a problem except for the lack of physical effort by Triska.

If she is a citizen in Arborea, then she probably agrees with the philosophy of the city. That includes brawling and physical violence. It is also well known that assault without the intention to kill is legal within the city.

Now assuming Triska is an Asralite and a citizen of Arborea, I can think of many things off the top of my head to help her rectify the situation. All of these would of course would involve some type of physical conflict....but assuming she is a citizen of Arborea and an Asralite (just assumptions) then she shouldn't mind that all, considering their philosophies and world views.

If not, then I suggest moving to a city where they hold the same worldviews as yourself.

krelji
Hero
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 am

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#36 Post by krelji » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:38 pm

I'm not going to use the halfling excuse, and yes I'm aware about which options
she got. I don't think though that violence should be the only viable option in this
case, and it would be nice if said human would start to use the brain.
My guess is that said human needs company, and feels bad if none is present.
But if that is the case, then said human would actually work on the reputation,
instead of alienating yourself with those who might spend some time with you.
All knowledge is heresy. Yes, you heard me correctly.
It is the nature of religions to thrive on ignorance.

Herst
Master
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#37 Post by Herst » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:55 pm

krelji wrote:I'm not going to use the halfling excuse, and yes I'm aware about which options
she got. I don't think though that violence should be the only viable option in this case

I will just say that if Triska is an Asralite, then I personally consider it poor RP to not resort to violence when the incident mentions requires an OOC posting when it can be handled perfectly well IC. Asralites are violent. They are even known for killing off themselves when they got bored and had no one else to fight. So if someone is giving you a reason to brawl, then brawl.

That is, if she is an Asralite then.

If she isn't, moving homes is another viable IC action. Staying in a city that gives you so much trouble because "everyone else is friendly" will just cause you problems that *cough*cough* are easily solvable.

User avatar
gojin
Master
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:23 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#38 Post by gojin » Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:07 am

If your reputation in a locale is supposed to be a value you can set yourself there should be a command for it. Otherwise I'd consider "correcting it" an abuse of the limitations of the system.
I second that

krelji
Hero
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 am

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#39 Post by krelji » Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:45 am

If your reputation in a locale is supposed to be a value you can set yourself there should be a command for it. Otherwise I'd consider "correcting it" an abuse of the limitations of the system.
I disagree here. Correcting your reputation isn't an abuse of the system, but simply
a method that needs to be available in order for chars to reach a certain reputation.
Otherwise any action that would move the reputation towards your preferred
reputation would have to be interpreted as an act of correcting it and would be an
abuse of the limitations of the system.
All knowledge is heresy. Yes, you heard me correctly.
It is the nature of religions to thrive on ignorance.

User avatar
gojin
Master
Posts: 182
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:23 pm
Location: East Coast
Contact:

Re: Reputation roleplay is boring

#40 Post by gojin » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:08 am

I disagree here. Correcting your reputation isn't an abuse of the system, but simply
a method that needs to be available in order for chars to reach a certain reputation.
Otherwise any action that would move the reputation towards your preferred
reputation would have to be interpreted as an act of correcting it and would be an
abuse of the limitations of the system.
I only interpret it as abuse when people blatantly state the only reason they do the action is to correct their karma. RP the way you want and let your karma be what it is. Pay a beggar 50 times a day to keep your karma 'good' and Ill call it abuse.

Post Reply