The Purpose Of Guilds

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Delia
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The Purpose Of Guilds

#1 Post by Delia » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:40 pm

The real problem about asrals is that they have absolutely no purpose in the world. Like with other guilds like the druids, shao-lin (and maybe rangers), they seem to have no active goal they can pursue, or at least none that matters in any way. So I think it's much more interesting to ask why we have guilds without purpose. It seems to me like first comes lore, from which comes reasons and then comes guilds not the other way around. I think for example the shao-lin has some new "post-construction" kind of goal set, but since it does not really stem from any lore or history it's mostly useless and doesn't really affect anything that much. The asrals only incentive to live is to defend against more insects (at least what I can see), but that is very passive and re-active type of play. They do not seem to have any agenda that they can push on others or any kind of every-day goal that they can achive. Same thing with druids, which seem to be almost completely de-coupled from the world and have no purpose, except maybe one, which in that case I think is kind of counter-productive to the game world. I'll leave the rangers out since I'm not that updated, but it seems to me like they are perhaps not the most active goal-seeking either. Although I might be wrong because it seems they have started to set some restrictions, but I'm still not sure about the goals. Anyway, these guilds are kind of "max freedom for the individual" which make them very, very boring, but it seems to attract players who want the best of both worlds, if it isn't for the cool skills or weapons/armours/miracles.

Which pretty much leaves the crusaders, taniels, thieves, order and sathos. The thieves are kind of special, the order is kind of dead.. which leaves like 3 guilds with an active purpose. It's kind of narrow, but it is at least possible to pursue.

I think the real solution is to seriously cut back on some guilds that don't work and have no purpose, especially with a playerbase that only supports at max 2-3 occupational guilds. Furthermore, merge the crusaders and taniel guilds, it's not such a big difference anyway. In a simple world, you could have only one guild as "establishment", the middle folk in between and those who chose to be evil/outlaws.

New guilds should be added on the basis of lore and history with reason, purpose and economic background not like new armour sets.

Anyway, the problem is not about the asral guild in particular, it just happen to be one out of more dead ends.
This seems to boil down to "purpose equals active PvP". Granted, I know very little of the other guilds but within the game world they seem to have their place. The biggest "problem" is that some guilds are more lifestyle oriented than 'I kill your character with my character' oriented. Still, that is very good IMO.

It would be nice to know now that some guilds apparently have nor serve any purpose, what of the guilds that do have lofty goals to dream of?

I can only speak of the Shao-Lin as my only char resides there. What does one expect a small number of monks to do, actually? During the Geas ages they have been more active or less so when dealing with the world depending on attendance and current leadership. Little by little there are ideas put out there within the game and OOC also. But in the end, as I see the shao-lin they are about a group of people trying to live their own way of life outside the "more regular folks". As far as other "goals" go, they go a long way alongside with the Taniel and Crusader agenda(yes, talking about fighting and stuff) but that is the stuff for IC debates given the ride is not that smooth at all.
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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#2 Post by isengoo » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:16 pm

If guilds exist only as a platform for people to PvP, then something is seriously wrong - either with the person thinking it or the system for making them think it. My money's on the former.

This is a roleplay MUD, not a PvP MUD. Yes, PvP does happen, but it's not the only thing that happens, thank you very much.

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#3 Post by isengoo » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:17 pm

To further elaborate, I think the purpose of guilds is to provide a platform for roleplay.

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#4 Post by Herst » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:38 pm

The only time when I believe people should be forced to Pvp is when they are.......forced.

Yes, I try to force people to PvP. I capture their members, I torture them. I eat them. I kill them. I set up ambushes with undeads that will most likely kill them.
I run in front of them and dance around when I know I am an enemy. Sometimes, that is still not enough.....they ignore me :(

Back to the topic:

My PERSONAL views on guilds and their purposes.

1)Rangers: I believe they are starting to serve a purpose now. They seem to have restrictions and goals that they are trying to achieve. They act as a guide to the lost. They patrol and protect the forests. They are not fanatically good, but they are good and lawful. They are often forced into conflict by the Sathonites, although their ideal life would be that they could live in perfect peace and harmony and enjoy nature, and wildlife. Like hippie-warriors.

2)Taniel Clergy and Crusade: Major PvP guilds with very strict goals and ideas. The church to spread their gods word and offer forgiveness to those willing to seek it. The Crusade to destroy the evil in the world. More to them, but who cares about that right now.

3)Druids: Useless unless you like trees and bunnies. They play the pacifists who protect nature.

4)Asral Clergy: To carry on the tradition and heritage of the former Asralites who were adopted by Asral himself. To make the world remember how Asral values bravery and courage and how he rewards those who seek it. To keep Arborea safe, as Asral once did himself.

5) Shao-Lin: They know kung-fu. They dress funny and talk a bunch of philosophical talk that only they understand and care for. They have a temple in the mountains, away from the cities to appease their lifestyle. They will use their special abilities for self defense and the defense of others, but they will not be the aggressors unless forced to be.

6) Order: No clue about them, but they show up at random times and do cool stuff.

7) Sathonys Clergy: A cult of death loving, human sacrificing, evil Priests. They follow the "old ways". They follow the god Sathonys in hopes that when he takes over the world he will either reward them, or make their torment far less painful than those who oppose him. They wish to bring pain and suffering and death and destruction to everyone in hopes it will please their god. They do not discriminate, any pain or suffering or destruction brought to the world pleases their god.

Once again, those are my personal views of the purpose of each guild.

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#5 Post by sun » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:12 pm

Delia wrote:This seems to boil down to "purpose equals active PvP". Granted, I know very little of the other guilds but within the game world they seem to have their place. The biggest "problem" is that some guilds are more lifestyle oriented than 'I kill your character with my character' oriented. Still, that is very good IMO.
I think you misunderstood me. Purpose is not the same as PVP, that is not what I meant. You can make great play by not harming anyone at all. However, RP usually involves some kind of interaction with others and some type of conflicting interest, whether it's selling most fish or killing for honour.

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#6 Post by sun » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:25 pm

Herst wrote:1)Rangers: I believe they are starting to serve a purpose now. They seem to have restrictions and goals that they are trying to achieve. They act as a guide to the lost. They patrol and protect the forests. They are not fanatically good, but they are good and lawful. They are often forced into conflict by the Sathonites, although their ideal life would be that they could live in perfect peace and harmony and enjoy nature, and wildlife. Like hippie-warriors.

2)Taniel Clergy and Crusade: Major PvP guilds with very strict goals and ideas. The church to spread their gods word and offer forgiveness to those willing to seek it. The Crusade to destroy the evil in the world. More to them, but who cares about that right now.

3)Druids: Useless unless you like trees and bunnies. They play the pacifists who protect nature.

4)Asral Clergy: To carry on the tradition and heritage of the former Asralites who were adopted by Asral himself. To make the world remember how Asral values bravery and courage and how he rewards those who seek it. To keep Arborea safe, as Asral once did himself.

5) Shao-Lin: They know kung-fu. They dress funny and talk a bunch of philosophical talk that only they understand and care for. They have a temple in the mountains, away from the cities to appease their lifestyle. They will use their special abilities for self defense and the defense of others, but they will not be the aggressors unless forced to be.

6) Order: No clue about them, but they show up at random times and do cool stuff.

7) Sathonys Clergy: A cult of death loving, human sacrificing, evil Priests. They follow the "old ways". They follow the god Sathonys in hopes that when he takes over the world he will either reward them, or make their torment far less painful than those who oppose him. They wish to bring pain and suffering and death and destruction to everyone in hopes it will please their god. They do not discriminate, any pain or suffering or destruction brought to the world pleases their god.

Once again, those are my personal views of the purpose of each guild.
I disagree that the crusaders and taniel clerics would somehow be set to be PvP, if that is what you mean, even if that is more likely to happen because of their narrow mindset. I also do not see any of the reason you gave for the asral clerics, shao-lin, order as goals..

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#7 Post by Herst » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:27 pm

sun wrote:
Herst wrote:1)Rangers: I believe they are starting to serve a purpose now. They seem to have restrictions and goals that they are trying to achieve. They act as a guide to the lost. They patrol and protect the forests. They are not fanatically good, but they are good and lawful. They are often forced into conflict by the Sathonites, although their ideal life would be that they could live in perfect peace and harmony and enjoy nature, and wildlife. Like hippie-warriors.

2)Taniel Clergy and Crusade: Major PvP guilds with very strict goals and ideas. The church to spread their gods word and offer forgiveness to those willing to seek it. The Crusade to destroy the evil in the world. More to them, but who cares about that right now.

3)Druids: Useless unless you like trees and bunnies. They play the pacifists who protect nature.

4)Asral Clergy: To carry on the tradition and heritage of the former Asralites who were adopted by Asral himself. To make the world remember how Asral values bravery and courage and how he rewards those who seek it. To keep Arborea safe, as Asral once did himself.

5) Shao-Lin: They know kung-fu. They dress funny and talk a bunch of philosophical talk that only they understand and care for. They have a temple in the mountains, away from the cities to appease their lifestyle. They will use their special abilities for self defense and the defense of others, but they will not be the aggressors unless forced to be.

6) Order: No clue about them, but they show up at random times and do cool stuff.

7) Sathonys Clergy: A cult of death loving, human sacrificing, evil Priests. They follow the "old ways". They follow the god Sathonys in hopes that when he takes over the world he will either reward them, or make their torment far less painful than those who oppose him. They wish to bring pain and suffering and death and destruction to everyone in hopes it will please their god. They do not discriminate, any pain or suffering or destruction brought to the world pleases their god.

Once again, those are my personal views of the purpose of each guild.
I disagree that the crusaders and taniel clerics would somehow be set to be PvP, if that is what you mean, even if that is more likely to happen because of their narrow mindset. I also do not see any of the reason you gave for the asral clerics, shao-lin, order as goals..
Then give us your ideas then?

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#8 Post by sun » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:33 pm

My point is that without some common lore you can decide on anything you want. My ideas are as good as anyone else's. If you take it to the extreme, you have guilds without names or content in a world without history or reality.

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#9 Post by Herst » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:48 pm

sun wrote:My point is that without some common lore you can decide on anything you want. My ideas are as good as anyone else's. If you take it to the extreme, you have guilds without names or content in a world without history or reality.

*searches for Sun's ideas*

:?:

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#10 Post by isengoo » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:09 pm

Asrals would most likely be participating in any conflict simply for the glory of it. Asrals don't care much for "he said she said", they just want to fight. Unfortunately, the politics involved with any conflict makes this tricky, so we usually stay out of these kinds of things.

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#11 Post by Herst » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:15 pm

isengoo wrote:Asrals would most likely be participating in any conflict simply for the glory of it. Asrals don't care much for "he said she said", they just want to fight. Unfortunately, the politics involved with any conflict makes this tricky, so we usually stay out of these kinds of things.
Ok....correct me if I am wrong. Did I understand this correctly? You implied that you do not do what you are supposed to do, because doing what you are supposed to do may have consequences you do not want to deal with?

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#12 Post by isengoo » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:36 pm

Yes.

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#13 Post by Herst » Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:45 pm

Boring!

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#14 Post by Delmon » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:18 pm

Sathos are boring

now what?

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#15 Post by isengoo » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:25 pm

Herst wrote:Boring!
Lol our temple got destroyed once already. We aren't in a hurry to do it again!

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#16 Post by Drake » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:53 pm

isengoo wrote:
Herst wrote:Boring!
Lol our temple got destroyed once already. We aren't in a hurry to do it again!
The decision to move the Asral Clerics was made a very long time ago for a specific reason. With that reason addressed by the moving of the guild from Arborea, I don't see another relocation of the guild being needed.

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#17 Post by Herst » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:56 pm

Delmon wrote:Sathos are boring

now what?
Yeah, it is depressing. That is why we wear black clothes and cut our wrists.

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#18 Post by Olrane » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:45 pm

Nah, Herst, that's those other folks. The ones who like animals a bit too much.

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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#19 Post by luminier » Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:41 pm

Luminier dresses in dark clothes (minus the white tunic with a big red cross) and he cuts his wrists. Cans I b Sathos mommy?


Anyways to the topic. Im inclinded to agree with Herst. We do seem toa gree on many of the same things in fact. But the Order doing cool things isn't really a goal. But i guess it's pretty mysterious all together, they are cool because they are so secretive and selective. Personally, I don't even know how you would get in that guild without having some kind of OOC connection. I have talked to many people and almost everyone knows next to nothing or nothing. Druids, yes tree huggers, and thats about all folks. Taniel Clergy and the Crusade And the Sathonys Clerics... biggest PvP biggest RP, imo. Asrals, they do alright, i think it would honestly be better if they weren't like fantatical shaolin... they need to be at war more often... or always, ideally imo. Shaolin good their goals are fairly obvious, to keep inner balance and to achieve a state of hm... w/e they do in those mountains. It's up to your imagination to determine how that is a true goal. Rangers again I agree they are indeed slowly realizing a goal. Personally I thought they were fine until I found out about the less than favourable members.
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Re: The Purpose Of Guilds

#20 Post by Delia » Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:25 pm

Basically every religious organization has a very clear goal. It all comes to spreading the dominion of their god and most probably diminishing the atleast some of the other gods. Everything said after this is just additional detail towards those ends. Other goals are mostly supportive of the first one or more mortal ones dealing with immediate influence of the organization itself.
The decision to move the Asral Clerics was made a very long time ago for a specific reason. With that reason addressed by the moving of the guild from Arborea, I don't see another relocation of the guild being needed.

Drake
Still...IG there are no wizzes and their relocation plans. An ages old organization was razed to the ground and forced to pick up their bags and leave to rebuild elsewhere. After two such incidents everyone will be naturally on their toes to see that they are not the next in line or that it happens again :)
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