Theft

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Zekiel
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Theft

#1 Post by Zekiel » Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:46 am

I was wondering if selling stuff from gremlins you killed may be considered to be theft.

Tehanu filed a case against someone for it, and I disagree with that both OOCly and ICly, but I'm not entirely sure if the IC disagreement is proper, so I decided to ask here.

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Abharsair
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Re: Theft

#2 Post by Abharsair » Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:00 am

That's really an IC issue, Zekiel. Some character thinks within the game it's theft. Others will probably disagree. Sounds like a good opportunity to roleplay some hot issue.
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Zekiel
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Re: Theft

#3 Post by Zekiel » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:10 am

Would be an awesome opportunity for RP if it wasn't the Judge that runs out on the chance to do so. ICly, Tehanu's the authority and wasn't in the mood to discuss wether it was theft or not last time.

Ah well. It's a shame, but I'll figure something out.

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sun
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Re: Theft

#4 Post by sun » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:02 am

I think it is still RP if Tehanu avoids the question or thinks Zekiel is too little worth to talk to, whatever reason she might have had. She might also be busy, which is an acceptable reason. Why should a high prest and judge grant a commoner time to talk about some law? Even if she abused her power in a legitimate discussion, it's still RP.

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Re: Theft

#5 Post by Zekiel » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:06 am

I didn't say it wasn't. I was merely lamenting how such a great opportunity was so minimally exploited. Happened to run into her at Elvandar's marketplace just now and got her to play along this time, though.

Resistance is futile. I shall have my play! -insane laughter-

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Re: Theft

#6 Post by Furius » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:14 am

This principle does exist in the real world, and maybe it would be of benefit to explain it.

In England, America, and under other legal systems derived from English common law, this offense is known as "conversion." It is distinct from theft, wherein one actually takes the good knowing that it belongs to someone else, or receiving stolen property (i.e., accepting something from another that is known to be stolen).

Conversion is a tort, which means that one person has been unjustly enriched at another's expense, and the damaged party is entitled to sue. It isn't a crime, so the damaged party won't get help from his friendly neighborhood prosecutor, there is no jail time, and the offending party only has to return the item.

Moreover, the same person can be tried criminally for theft, and civilly for conversion, and even win one case and lose the other. A poor man stealing a few coins or a loaf of bread could, conceivably, be found not guilty of theft, but he could be forced to return what he took.

Without such a provision in law, a victim of theft would have no way of recovering something that was stolen from him and sold to a third party.



With that said, GEAS's legal system is more akin to the civil law systems found in just about every country that wasn't once part of the British Empire. Under these legal systems there is something called a "delict", which is sort of a generic term used to describe some violation of another person's rights, and a "quasi-delict", where the violation is unintentional. There is no specific "tort of conversion," but you're still violating someone else's rights when you take something that belongs to someone else. I'm honestly not aware of any previous effort to punish behavior like this, but I find it RP-consistent.

I could see more of a "spoils of battle" approach taken in Arborea, where the victor is entitled to the possessions of his slain opponent. I don't know how this would work in a world where fallen opponents occasionally are resurrected, but someone else can sort this out.


ICly, Furius stands ready and willing to discuss legal theory with just about anyone. :D

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sun
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Re: Theft

#7 Post by sun » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:14 am

Zekiel wrote:Would be an awesome opportunity for RP if it wasn't the Judge that runs out on the chance to do so.
I thought "oppurtunity for RP" must have referred to that.. what else could it mean, silence and avoidance is RP too. Avoiding something is still to exploit it, and still RP.

Good luck with that tearing down that resistance.

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stilgar
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Re: Theft

#8 Post by stilgar » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:18 pm

A disarming smile and a warm hug is always worky :twisted: I would personally like to see how Tehanu's resistance vanquishes and she realises the very purpose of her existence is to be a woman :lol:
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