Arborea - land of standing targets

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stilgar
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Arborea - land of standing targets

#1 Post by stilgar » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:36 am

I think arborea is the only city where guards usually sent out for dieing without the hope of survival. Why do I say so?

Arborea is a city in war since ages.. over a hundred years by now. Its enemies did not change much: Sathos and insects. Still not a hundred or two hundred years made them prepared better for the task. They don't use torches (the cheapest ways to fight against darkness), They don't call for help if attacked, majority of the guards simply sit in their barracks while the gates are breached, guards let ravaging insects kill the shopkeepers. There can be MANY OOC reason for that, but can't give me a single IC one to justify it.

Either please make things more convenient, or simply remove the extra guards. The three guards near the gallows has no function at all, apart from spitting on the bad reputated ones and smiling at the others and serving as a close, and constant source of possible sacrifices for the dark clergy. Guards in different parts of the city has no function either. They don't patrol, don't react, but defend themselves when attacked. Kelric sitting in his office and his guards die a few yards away from him. I can hardly imagine a situation there is no alarm sound or bell or whatever to sound is a horde of insects attack the guards. Not to mention pulling up the drawbridge or do something reasonable. (I remember them doing so earlier) Not to metion the IC situation: how would you convince a guard to go out to guard if that means certain death. Not for one day or two days, but for ages and years. Simply: no way to convince them or paythem enough money to do so. I know about the coding part and the OOC reasons, but GEAS is known for reality.

Placing a single, old, half blind, half deaf poorly armoured and weaponed guard would suffice the gallows if you insist on having someone there and hw would not even be a big loss for the city. I see no real reason to guard the place as it is "guarded" right now. All the guardss sent out there are dead meat. They can't stop an invasion, they don't sound an alarm, they are without function.

Its currently like having guards, but what for? Citizens would not pay them for nothing. Long term solution would be to fix this (needs a lot of coding I know and you all have other things to do) Short term solution is to remove all the extra guards, or change them to unarmed city officials for the sake of realism.
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#2 Post by ganandorf » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:54 am

I agree with stilgar.
I can walk in single handedly and literally kill the three gallows guards in about 10 minutes, Thats without darkness as well. If i tried that with the walking patrol of elvandar (which is equally consisting of three guards) I would get my ass handed too me within 30 seconds.

The way arborea is set up now is pitiful i think.
You hear people talking in the inn about how weak elves are, obviously making the assumption that a city of humans is much much stronger.
Yet the entire arborean guard sucks compared to elvandar.

I THINK I could raid arborea on my own with a few strategic undeads set up. In elvandar that would never fly.

Of course elvandar has the support of the taniel clergy. But arborea is a city of tough human warriors, they should atleast put up SOMEWHAT of a chance

Something really needs to be done about the arborea guard. Specially when they are gettingn most of the flak. (insects and undeads)

edit: They now use torches, there are a few set up at the gate that need only be lit, and one of the gallows guards carry one,
And why is it that the arborean guards are to stupid to raise the drawbridge when a team of 7 insects is attacking the gate, knowing that more are on their way? Any IC justification?

Another edit: I hope anyone does not bring up the same old argument of "Wizards have much better to do, such as coding a new continent, than fixing something like this" As the way i see it, what is the point in a new continent if there is alot that can be changed in this continent.
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#3 Post by tessa » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:07 am

I don't know why additional guards were added at the gallows. I guess to protect the gallow guy there, but that doesn't work. He'd probably do better as a non-militant NPC than a single guard that does suicide attacks on enemies, or as a guard that needs other guards to support him even though all of them just die anyway.

The guards used to raise the drawbridge, and used to even pour burning oil on enemies from above, or actually stop insects from walking past them into town. However, some time ago guards were horrendously bugged and stopped doing almost all their special functions, including blocking or searching people with bad reputations. These specific features were amongst some of them, and would probably be fixed if wizards were informed and had time to redo it.

As for the surplus of guards in the barracks, Elvandar has a few too. But Elvandar also has patrols, which Arborea lacks. Arborea *seems* to be set up for patrols, as at least one always appears after reboot, but it gets lost shortly after, I assume due to a bugged patrol route that doesn't loop correctly. So, perhaps an idea for the surplus of guards is simply making more of them actually patrol through the city.

However, wizards being informed about this is the first step of having it resolved. Which I hope will be done now.

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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#4 Post by ganandorf » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:09 am

Ah I wasnt aware it was a bug, i thought it had just been changed. Bridge that is
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#5 Post by stilgar » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:26 am

Add-on:

A single(!!) insect killed the city commander and his two guards. To achieve that first he killed of a clerk just south of them and all the guards were just sitting in neighbouring rooms and did nothing. :twisted:
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#6 Post by ganandorf » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:28 am

AND THAT
is when you know something is messed up.
They should be calling for help for sure in a scenario like that.
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#7 Post by sun » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:16 am

At least in the old days the entire garrison would rush out to the gates.

But in any case, there are plenty of helpless people spread out all over the world. They are just as attacked as those gate guards. Why would you continue to live out in a lonely hut in the forest? It's almost as if some NPC's was designed to die to the sathos. For realism it would make more sense that these people would at least after a couple of deaths realize the situation is not bearable and then move into the city.

But the problem is actually even more general. The evil guys can launch an attack basically anywhere in the world at any time. The resources it would take from the good side to actively monitor and guard each place is like 20 times greater. It's just not realistic with the small playerbase of Geas. And even then, good guys are logged on only now and then, attacks still happen when they are off. How often does the sathos actually continue to attack an NPC when there goodies are there to defend? I don't think it happens very often that the bad guys OOC regulate themselves by calling off an attack because they know that noone is there to defend it.

I think the real problem is that the attacker (of unprotected targets, it is the evils) has a huge benefit in this sense. One would either have to regulate what times it is possible to attack as an evil or solve it in another way, like much better defensive possibilities (without making it unfairly difficult for the evil guys).

Why not zone up the lands with walls/perimeters and with messagers? Of course you would need to kill off hellrift and it still does not solve the problem that people are logged off, but it would at least be possible for the goodies to know when evils have entered the lands, and it wouldn't be possible to do every day or during 10 minutes. The NPC's would actually make a little sense since they have some protection, and might even run away from their homes when the word reaches them (if you want). Adds some nice sneak targets for thieves, customs for merchants etc.. solves everything :) It only makes sense that the lands would have created these defenses a long time ago, with messagers, doves, lit fires and all types of medieval hi-tech.

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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#8 Post by Delia » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:50 am

Even with multiple defenders handily around...the resources for active patrolling are spread very thin. Either risk being picked as an easy, single target or just choose a location or max two. Of course the bad guys will avoid that/those places then and go for something easier unless the target is the defenders themselves. I've seen so many times, mainly the notorious gallows guard being butchered without anybody even having a chance to notice it as it happens. Only the undead stand there as the silent witness to the massacre. As it is now, Arborea might just as well roll over and hand herself to Sathos.
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#9 Post by isengoo » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:00 am

So why not just let it happen? If it's so easy to conquer, then conquer it already and claim it for Sathonys. Hey look, a roleplay solution. What about that :P

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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#10 Post by sun » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:01 am

It's all about creating/enforcing conditions where both sides have fair chances right?

Right now a) you attack someone much weaker or b) you don't attack at all. Both are just as boring.

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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#11 Post by Delia » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:24 am

So why not just let it happen? If it's so easy to conquer, then conquer it already and claim it for Sathonys. Hey look, a roleplay solution. What about that :P
Could be fun, true 8)
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#12 Post by ganandorf » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:55 am

Because thats boring, All the guards in the town would die. Half an hour would pass, somehow (even though all previous guards were dead) New guards will be trained and return. And somehow good guys would learn about whats going on and about 5 of them will log on at once :D
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#13 Post by ganandorf » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:55 am

But... As soon as my exams are done i'll give it a try, nothing to lose right :D
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#14 Post by stilgar » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:02 am

add-on:

At least some improvements. Meanwhile darkelves in the sewers at least trained their tactics, help each other, started to flee (what they did not do before) and gained a nice respawn rate either :wink: Maybe they should take over training the city guards. They react a WAY faster to new challenges than Kelric :twisted:
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#15 Post by isengoo » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:03 pm

At least if the Sathos took over Arborea they could stop whining about not having any books :twisted:

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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#16 Post by tessa » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:59 pm

I'll give Ganon ABC books if he raids Asrals instead of Scribes.

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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#17 Post by stilgar » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:39 am

I wonder the sathos raid Asral places but Evren and Gwen shrines are almost always untouched :shock: They take the effort to turn half of Amward into waxworks day by day and the shrines of Evren and Gwen are continuously remain untouched. :roll:

:?:

:!:

:twisted:
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#18 Post by tessa » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 am

Probably because neither are a challenge to destroy and no one cares about them. If you're looking for PvP action, Asral and Taniel are the way to go.

And anyone that knows how bugged the druids are would think twice or thrice about trying to raid that place.

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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#19 Post by stilgar » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:15 am

emote smile Tessa

You smile at Tessa
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Re: Arborea - land of standing targets

#20 Post by ganandorf » Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:30 am

1. Not much to be done with the gwen shrine, one npc, she's taken down and zombified in 30 seconds

2. Arborea has now been fixed, and It's a bitch to get past the gates. For those who haven't experienced it :evil:
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