Vote for Our Mud on TMC!
 
 
Geas Home
 
Play the Game

Crusader Roleplay

Anything to say about roleplay? Want to share a story? This is the right place.

Moderator: Wizards

User avatar
luminier
Overlord
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Manitoba Canada

Crusader Roleplay

Postby luminier » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:46 am

From what I understand from the thread "War, death, and the meaning of life." not many people like how Crusaders roleplay.

As their current leader, believe it or not, it actually matters to me how people see us and I care whether people think we are doing a good job based on what we exist to do. Know that the Crusaders are -fanatics-. IC we will obviously deny this as it is derogatory, but the point still stands.

I think it's fine to hate us IC, that I have no problem with. There are many many reasons to hate us IC. But if people hate us OOCly it is evident that it is a serious problem or that the person needs to be educated about something like "certain things they must do because it is their job/if they didn't do X it would be bad roleplay for them.

I would like to hear some ideas as to how the Crusaders should treat people.

Thanks in advance for the help. Hopefully the ideas here makes everyones roleplay more enjoyable.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

krelji
Hero
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 am

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby krelji » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:17 am

luminier wrote:From what I understand from the thread "War, death, and the meaning of life." not many people like how Crusaders roleplay.

I don't have an issue with the roleplay of Crusaders - at least in most
cases. Most issues I have with the Crusaders are due to the way they
have been designed, and there's little a player can do about it.
All knowledge is heresy. Yes, you heard me correctly.
It is the nature of religions to thrive on ignorance.

User avatar
luminier
Overlord
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Manitoba Canada

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby luminier » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:25 am

Fair enough, how would you design them?

I made this topic with the aim to keep players not drive them off. If that means changing a guild, Im for it.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

krelji
Hero
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 am

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby krelji » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:34 am

I am not sure what I would change. This is partly because I don't know
too much about most guilds - and yes this is intentionally from my side -
and partly because I still remember enough details about why the Legion
has been destroyed.
All knowledge is heresy. Yes, you heard me correctly.

It is the nature of religions to thrive on ignorance.

ferranifer
Hero
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:16 am
Location: Norway

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby ferranifer » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:43 am

When certain actions done due to roleplay end up being the reason players want to quit playing, then that's an OOC problem.

There's different shades of grey, even for fanatic characters. If you really feel OOC that you're ruining someone's day due to what you feel your character should do IC, then maybe you could simply take a step back and walk away. I understand that the line between staying true to your character and harassment is a blurry line in some cases, specifically in PVP situations, but I'm pretty sure noone is gonna question the quality of your roleplay for leaving a guild enemy alone (specially when you cannot even remove them from the enemy list!). The welfare of the game should always come on top of ANY roleplay consideration.

User avatar
luminier
Overlord
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Manitoba Canada

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby luminier » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:08 am

Some decisions do need to be carefully thought out.

In the topic that is the reason I brought this thread up, I see two problems in that situation. Mona was accepted into the Asrals being a known permanent enemy of the Crusaders and then was able to become leader.I think that might be the first "incorrect" roleplay consideration (I have incorrect in quotes because it is hard to judge). The next would be that I can choose to not hunt this enemy which I did for some @months. However, it just got to a point where one has to ask why aren't we hunting this enemy? Are we afraid of war? Should we really be defending one who has gone against our vows? Failing that, I can choose to follow through on my roleplay based on someone elses roleplay.

In this case it seems like I am at fault for following my roleplay when in fact I was just responding to someone elses. I am not saying anyone person is at fault, but, this was/is the situation.

Ferranifer, in my shoes would you just not have Mona hunted? Why can it not be mended that she is removed from the Asral guild? Why must it fall on me that I make a decision that is blatantly against my roleplay to fix a situation when there is a answer that actually fits in with everyones roleplay?

One HUGE problem that in fact -actually- might have caused this whole thing. Old Legion guild members can still come to the Crusader gate and be accepted without any announcement at all to the other guild members who were offered membership. This needs to be changed. I've reported it in the past already.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

ferranifer
Hero
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:16 am
Location: Norway

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby ferranifer » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:29 am

luminier wrote:Ferranifer, in my shoes would you just not have Mona hunted? Why can it not be mended that she is removed from the Asral guild? Why must it fall on me that I make a decision that is blatantly against my roleplay to fix a situation when there is a answer that actually fits in with everyones roleplay?


Who's gonna question your roleplay for turning the blind eye to this situation? Certainly not me. That is exactly what I would do. People do this all the time in the game about many other things. It's cool to play a fanatic evil bastard, but don't forget it's gotta be cool for the other players too.

This whole issue really does sound to me like some players wanting to have some fun stirring the pot. And you know what? Awesome. Go for it. War is a great way to revitalize the game for many players. Just make sure you have a way to stop it too, because the way the game is polarized at the moment, you won't have any IC reason to do it. Also, make sure you have a way to let people that don't wanna be included out of it. And if the reason is a bit lame IC and doesn't really fit 100% with your character's roleplay... so what?

User avatar
luminier
Overlord
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Manitoba Canada

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby luminier » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:38 am

Why should the game being polarized prevent a decision from being made? It's pretty obvious the Crusaders have "won" the war. Some Asrals have already noted this and are saying it will only end if Mona leaves. I think thats a fairly nice ending and I don't even have to break roleplay for it.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

ferranifer
Hero
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:16 am
Location: Norway

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby ferranifer » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:41 am

What can I say, congratulations on destroying Mona's character and winning the mud.

User avatar
luminier
Overlord
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Manitoba Canada

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby luminier » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:43 am

Destroying her character? She left the Crusaders, she knew the consequences, she decided to join the Asrals (probably for protection from us) and then became leader and essentially forced a war.

Really? I destroyed the character?
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

User avatar
arxthas
Hero
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby arxthas » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:57 am

ferranifer wrote:What can I say, congratulations on destroying Mona's character and winning the mud.


Now I think that is going too far.. You can not blame Luminier for simply doing what he is supposed to do. Or even accuse someone for something like that in general (in my personal opinion).

Consider what actions Mona then. Isn't she taking her guild mates as hostage in a war (where at least one of those members seem like a new player to me)? Add to that, she actually has the possibility of winning the war. Even though it might look bad right now.

If you took a more sane approach to it, what probably happened is that Mona did not consider the full meaning of joining/leaving the Crusade. If you would put that in a note and send it to the admin with your full regrets, it might be enough to get pardoned. If I am not wrong, it might even be something that the players of the Crusade tried to help her with (but as far as I know received no answer).

If Mona's character was actually "destroyed" then I am sad because it sucks when players leave. But I would certainly not put the blame on Luminier for it.

ferranifer
Hero
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:16 am
Location: Norway

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby ferranifer » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:30 am

"The full meaning of joining/leaving the Crusade". What do you want, an erase character button on gquit? Seriously, it's a freaking game. I understand the IC need to punish someone that leaves a guild and the OOC need to have deterrents against guild hopping. But do you really need to make sure that a person that leaves a guild just cannot do anything else anymore ever again?

I think you forgot about the option of "moving on and change the approach to this character and continue playing". Stay in the Crusade forever or we will make sure you want to switch character should not be the only options. Specially when there's ways in place to join the Crusade when you don't really know what you're doing (Legion stuff).

It wasn't Mona who did this. It was you who decided to be jerks and repeatedly maim a newbie's ability to play the game. And no, once again, maim or death are NOT the only options. You could, as I said in another post, just turn the blind eye instead of blocking and punishing. But I guess you'd consider that cheating. Meh.

We had plenty of arguments in the past about letting newbies get involved in wars, the meaning of war in game, repeated PKing and where to draw the line between showing strength and destroying others ability to play. I think this is just another one of those cases where you guys did not see that line between good character impersonation and being nice to your fellow gamers.

User avatar
arxthas
Hero
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby arxthas » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:38 am

We can discuss the harshness of permanent enemy status.. but you just jumped a personal attack on Luminier, blaming him for someone else's choices.

ferranifer
Hero
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:16 am
Location: Norway

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby ferranifer » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:45 am

As posted on the other thread, it was fully within his control and intentions to accomplish what he has.

My whole point about this topic (and the one about war too) is that if you guys really wanted to prevent any of these actions, you could have easily done it. For me, "good" roleplay is just not enough of a reason for doing certain things.

It's not about the actions being justified IC or not. They certainly are. It's about the actions being necessary OOC, since they greatly affect other people's ability to play.

User avatar
arxthas
Hero
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby arxthas » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:16 pm

(moving some of your quoted posts into this thread)


ferranifer wrote:It's quite funny, because I would say it is stuff like your fanatical interpretation of the game code's intentions what made Fernao want to leave.


I'd say your chat-room interpretation of the game code's intention is what make people want to leave. I really dislike the idea that some people just ignore the stuff that the game tells them because it's more convenient or whatever favourite reason X you have. Ignoring that stuff seriously affects other people's game. And no, it's not like it's "fun" - Mona indeed put the Crusaders in a difficult position. Getting out of that situation by simply ignoring it is also solving your problems in an unfair way. Ignoring the situation is just another deprivation of experience. How should I motivate that when I know my character wants to follow this god and the god tells him, "go kill X"? It's not possible without going into OOC-mode.

ferranifer wrote:Feel free to report me for sparing the lives of an awful lot of Satho enemies over the years. I will give you logs if you want.


And no, as far as I know hunting enemies the way Crusade is supposed to do is not as deeply rooted in the Sathos. They actually have some real options. In the case where Crusaders have "normal" enemies they also have this option (and stunmode is very frequently used, nearly always at least by me).

Even if you provided me with logs, I can not prove what your characters true impersonation would be and that you diverge from them.

ferranifer wrote:As posted on the other thread, it was fully within his control and intentions to accomplish what he has.

My whole point about this topic (and the one about war too) is that if you guys really wanted to prevent any of these actions, you could have easily done it. For me, "good" roleplay is just not enough of a reason for doing certain things.

It's not about the actions being justified IC or not. They certainly are. It's about the actions being necessary OOC, since they greatly affect other people's ability to play.


My point is - we can not have easily done it. And it is far across that line where it even starts hurting our own experience in this fantasy world. I fully appreciate the idea of being as fair as possible to others. I think it was already said that Crussie players helped Mona with application for forgiveness and go as soft as possible on those who are not direct enemies.

But when it is decided by the guild wiz that this player will not be pardoned and therefore should be hunted - I am going to respect that decision. I might not even fully understand this decision, but if we keep doing to opposite of what the game designers set out for us, we are going to degrade our experience here in a different way. They could easily allow us to remove the enemy or even set those perma-bans on a timeout. Or even just throw a say on the guild line/board, "oh hey guys, this was not the intent, calm down a bit".

The idea of what is necessary is highly subjective. In the end everything that happens in the world is going to affect everyone's "ability to play"/fun factor in some way. Your "game" might include avoiding stat decreases. My "game" might be about something else.

mazarmormuk
Veteran
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:47 pm
Contact:

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby mazarmormuk » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:29 pm

hmm, greetings.
well, to the basic topic, i must say that i do not dislike the roleplay of
crusaders in general. they are hardliners, and its great to have them in the
mud, although its damn hard to not follow their orders, as some of them are really powerful enemies.
what i dislike more is how others roleplay with the crusaders.
as they are fanatics, i would expect others to be more distant to them, and
what i sometimes dislike is the point that other guilds follow the rules of
these fanatics.
To the topic about mona. If we all play the fact of a traitor that straight like
the crusaders do (and a traitor warcleric is lifelong enemy too afaik), we ll end up in a great war one against the other.
Urik left the warclerics at the same time when mona left crucs. several chars of the crusaders have been shaolins before. Isengorn left to the taniel clerics. and if all stayed lifelong enemies, it would be crucs vs. warclerics, crucs vs. shaolins, warclerics vs. shaolins and the same with taniel clerics.
I ld find a lot more fun for all, if traitors are hunted, but if there were politics
of the heads of the guilds working together. means mona leaves, gets hunted, asks the warclerics for joining, the avatar asks the lord marshall if they re finished with her, and accepts mona.
mazarmormuk accepted mona to give her at least a bit of protection.
as urik got his protection on the side of elvandar.
but as both guilds are legal and accepted in arborea, elvandar and the underground, they could too find a possibility to handle the topic of traitors.

isengoo
Champion
Posts: 785
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:38 pm

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby isengoo » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:03 pm

ferranifer wrote:"The full meaning of joining/leaving the Crusade". What do you want, an erase character button on gquit? Seriously, it's a freaking game. I understand the IC need to punish someone that leaves a guild and the OOC need to have deterrents against guild hopping. But do you really need to make sure that a person that leaves a guild just cannot do anything else anymore ever again?

This, this, freakin this. Punishment for doing something should never, NEVER, mean permanent enemy status and hunted and killed for eternity. I know how the crusader stuff works, what with being commanded to do x and y, but seriously? If the game commands you to do things that basically shit on other people and make them not have fun, then just don't do it. To hell with the consequences!

User avatar
arxthas
Hero
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby arxthas » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:14 pm

And you wrote so much I agreed on for a long time now, Isengoo. It was like a hot streak. Now it's all back to the old :-(

But anyway, since so many seem to think that perma-enemy thing is that bad, I'd just gather my friends and request for it to be changed.

isengoo
Champion
Posts: 785
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:38 pm

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby isengoo » Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:29 pm

Why can't you just ignore it until it is changed?

User avatar
arxthas
Hero
Posts: 292
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Crusader Roleplay

Postby arxthas » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:15 pm

Ehh... is it going to be changed now?


Return to “Roleplay”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron