Magic and Gods Revisited

Anything to say about roleplay? Want to share a story? This is the right place.

Moderator: Wizards

Message
Author
Zehren
Overlord
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:50 am

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#41 Post by Zehren » Sat May 26, 2012 7:42 am

Delia wrote:
and/or favour gain penalty.
That is, less favour gained per sacrifice. Though I feel increased favour decay would be more appropriate forcing the mages to scurry to the gods more often.
I merely offered up another alternative - your post was entirely clear :)
Drayn wrote:Zehren, the Karmassassin!

Zehren
Overlord
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:50 am

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#42 Post by Zehren » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:24 am

Is (arcane) magic seen as bad by the general populace? I am inclined to think "yes". If so, should using magic result in lowered reputation? I am inclined to think "yes".

(There are some obvious errs in the reputation system, by having really weird areas count in other weird areas, but that is separate from the basic idea of whether magic ought affect street cred or not.)
Drayn wrote:Zehren, the Karmassassin!

fernao
Champion
Posts: 610
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:44 am

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#43 Post by fernao » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:06 am

I fully agree. Magic, same as Sathonys miracles, should bring a reputation penalty when used. On the other hand however, there should be possibilities for a mage, or Sathonys priest, to put much effort into regaining reputation in an area. To show that what they did was not meant to harm to local population etc etc.
Life is but a butterflies dream
Image

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2782
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#44 Post by Delia » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:13 am

I am for this, definitely. An elven mage in Elvandar could have it slightly easier than in Arborea though. But it should still be a penalty for casting within the city.

It would be nice if characters could become reputation flagged(temporarily or even permanently depending on choices) and thus receive different responses than the generic ones depending on active flags but that one is for the idea section.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates
"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

Drayn
Hero
Posts: 439
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:09 pm

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#45 Post by Drayn » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:34 pm

Maybe reputation could have a different axis added Respect vs. Disdain and Fear vs. Trusted. So one could be Respected but Feared. So a mage who keeps flinging magic about in public, but hasn't actually harmed anyone would not be disdained, but they would certainly be worrying people:

ask beladan Bob the Reckless Hmmm...he makes me nervous. He's an OK sort, but I worry he'll hurt someone one day.

An extremely feared person would be shooed out of town just like someone with a disdained reputation.


EDIT: Just noticing this is basically a Good-Evil/Lawful-Chaotic alignment spread.

krelji
Hero
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 am

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#46 Post by krelji » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:04 am

I'm not so sure if I like the idea of spells negatively affecting the reputation -
at least in regards to the currently used system. If the reputation was being
affected by casting spells, then it would be necessary to treat spells that
produce a noticeable effect, and those that won't differently. The casting itself
should IMO not have any effect on reputation, unless speaking in magik and/or
using emotes would directly affect your reputation.

Those with some skill in magik could try to imitate Mages by speaking, and
Joe Average NPC would have no means to determine if a spell was being casted,
and virtually anyone could try to imitate Mages, by waving their arms around
similar like Mages are doing it.
All knowledge is heresy. Yes, you heard me correctly.
It is the nature of religions to thrive on ignorance.

Zehren
Overlord
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:50 am

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#47 Post by Zehren » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:11 am

krelji wrote:I'm not so sure if I like the idea of spells negatively affecting the reputation -
at least in regards to the currently used system. If the reputation was being
affected by casting spells, then it would be necessary to treat spells that
produce a noticeable effect, and those that won't differently. The casting itself
should IMO not have any effect on reputation, unless speaking in magik and/or
using emotes would directly affect your reputation.

Those with some skill in magik could try to imitate Mages by speaking, and
Joe Average NPC would have no means to determine if a spell was being casted,
and virtually anyone could try to imitate Mages, by waving their arms around
similar like Mages are doing it.
A valid point. Only spells that may be perceived ought to affect reputation.
Drayn wrote:Zehren, the Karmassassin!

adanath
Champion
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:36 am
Location: Lynchburg, VA

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#48 Post by adanath » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:27 am

Also one thing I think often forgot in respect to magik is that yes it is relatively new to the player

Ancient and very old to NPC's and characters in the game.

Who saved Forostar from the insects in the end? The mages creating tshaharks.
Who put the tshaharks to sleep? A Tshahark mage

There are multiple very highly favourable stories about mages in the history of Geas, and the elven people especially "like" magik, they don't distrust it. Their history is a magical one.

I know there was a point made like thieves, but the Queen had the original thieves, and it was during a war for survival, and they only attacked the other side as commanded by her. Not only that but afterwards the Queen had rangers, who took up much of the roguish responsibility and later ordered the thieves burned out herself. Magik is very evident throughout the history of the elven line however, very unlike thieves. Thieves have always been there but have long been regarded as evil.

There is evil magik too, looking at the Lich and stuff, but magik amongst the elves, I don't think it would make sense for a reputation penalty.

Zehren
Overlord
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:50 am

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#49 Post by Zehren » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:42 am

adanath wrote:Also one thing I think often forgot in respect to magik is that yes it is relatively new to the player

Ancient and very old to NPC's and characters in the game.

Who saved Forostar from the insects in the end? The mages creating tshaharks.
Who put the tshaharks to sleep? A Tshahark mage

There are multiple very highly favourable stories about mages in the history of Geas, and the elven people especially "like" magik, they don't distrust it. Their history is a magical one.

I know there was a point made like thieves, but the Queen had the original thieves, and it was during a war for survival, and they only attacked the other side as commanded by her. Not only that but afterwards the Queen had rangers, who took up much of the roguish responsibility and later ordered the thieves burned out herself. Magik is very evident throughout the history of the elven line however, very unlike thieves. Thieves have always been there but have long been regarded as evil.

There is evil magik too, looking at the Lich and stuff, but magik amongst the elves, I don't think it would make sense for a reputation penalty.
Magic is actually new(ish) for most NPCs too. Barring Elves who lived a thousand years ago (which I imagine to be perhaps a dozen or two, at most, given how often Elvandar has been sacked...) No one except crazy hermites have been in much contact with magic recently. (All mages are per definition crazy hermites.)

Who cursed Forostar with lumbering moronic lizardmen, using humans and elves in their vile experiments, instead of just burning all insects to crisp? Mages.

(As to who put the tshaharks to sleep - I thought they hibernated somehow. I have never heard of a tshahark mage before. I am entirely opposed to tshahark halfwits being possibly smart enough to fathom magic.)

It is possible that positive magical "legends" exist. It is easily possible that negative ones do instead/too.
Drayn wrote:Zehren, the Karmassassin!

louis
Champion
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:10 am
Location: The dark void

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#50 Post by louis » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:04 pm

adanath wrote:There is evil magik too, looking at the Lich and stuff, but magik amongst the elves, I don't think it would make sense for a reputation penalty.
Hmm, I can understand the wish to make mages somehow "commonly accepted", but I mean lets stay honest - the only bed a mage deserves is made of straw, soaked with gasoline, and it is set on fire as soon as the mage is put there (preferably bound with a strong rope).
So - again imo - no, absolutely no common acceptance, they shall be treated as the bastards they are, means mages should be deeply disregarded, regardless what they do - or pretend to do - for a city- There is a reason why they mostly have been driven out of town - because they are made responsible for everything :)

If a mage wants to be accepted and loved, he shall become a farmer :)

Zehren
Overlord
Posts: 1057
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:50 am

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#51 Post by Zehren » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:06 pm

@Louis

It would be good to have some IG legends about evil mages of old circulated, to counter all those fluffybunny views.
Drayn wrote:Zehren, the Karmassassin!

louis
Champion
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:10 am
Location: The dark void

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#52 Post by louis » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:20 pm

Zehren wrote:@Louis

It would be good to have some IG legends about evil mages of old circulated, to counter all those fluffybunny views.
- All my opinion -
All Clergies should be already well aware, that mages are weakening their gods by "stealing" magic power - that should be reason enough to burn them, I personally mean.

And for the simple folk:
A mage controls the weather once, making the clouds vanish - and of course he will be taken into account for the next storm ruining the harvest, either for causing it, or for not preventing it. So, regardless how you turn things - their intransparent business will offer enough material to speculate with.

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2782
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#53 Post by Delia » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:27 pm

And what is that thing you call an undead ward, exactly?

Simply the amount of hard questions that can be thought of is staggering ;)
"To be is to do" - Sokrates
"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

louis
Champion
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:10 am
Location: The dark void

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#54 Post by louis » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:31 pm

Delia wrote:And what is that thing you call an undead ward, exactly?

Simply the amount of hard questions that can be thought of is staggering ;)
Well, people work that way, that they always need excuses for bad things happening to them - so, if mages can control undeads, and dare to show that in public to the common folks, I would not be too astonished if that would turn against them one day;)

EDIT: But once again, all only my personal opinion

adanath
Champion
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:36 am
Location: Lynchburg, VA

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#55 Post by adanath » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:48 pm

It was actually a tshahark mage (a rare one) that put tshaharks to sleep. I think a lot of the problem comes in the way I have always seen tshaharks, as creatures that can have very cunning intelligence, just not grasp some concepts. Like just because a tshahark can't count past 2 doesn't mean he doesn't realize there are more than four enemies in a room, or that one pile of coins or nuggets is bigger than another.

I know Gwen has been alive throughout all of magiks uses, and for the most part I assumed the populace received new bodies from Taniel (as they have never changed). I can see humans having a particular dislike for magik, I would think elves and tshaharks would not be quite so averse.

(Adanath remembers mages making him, and remembers a tshahark mage putting him to sleep)

I did however destroy many magikal things upon finding them (obelisks) and was quite antaganistic about the concept of it as a char years ago. Since then adanath has only seen it used to battle evil mostly.

User avatar
luminier
Overlord
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Manitoba Canada

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#56 Post by luminier » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:31 pm

I believe the "tshahark mage" is actually a tchark, which if I recall correctly, is a failed experiment of tshaharks that live in the rift in Arborea.

There is one "leader" tchark that I believe Adanath is talking about.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

adanath
Champion
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:36 am
Location: Lynchburg, VA

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#57 Post by adanath » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:43 pm

No actually it was on the website somewhere, but it actually said somewhere in history (and I know I am not imagining and have read many times) that a rare tshahark mage casted a spell and made them all fall asleep.

Adanath has even told the story ic multiple times.

I am relatively sure it was on the web page about races and it seems that it has since been removed. (Now the website says nothing about them sleeping) It did have a description of how someone forgot to wake them and every now and again one wakes up!

louis
Champion
Posts: 564
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:10 am
Location: The dark void

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#58 Post by louis » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:20 pm

The Account of War maybe? It tells a lot about Tshahark History.

adanath
Champion
Posts: 505
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:36 am
Location: Lynchburg, VA

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#59 Post by adanath » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:42 pm

No It really seems as if it were removed from the race history, I mean it may be from there, but I have read it a lot, but I really thought the race history had a couple sentences in it about the tshaharks being put to sleep for a long time (vital part of their history), and now it seems to not?

krelji
Hero
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 am

Re: Magic and Gods Revisited

#60 Post by krelji » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:47 pm

There, they lay down and one of the rare mages amongst the tshaharks casted a spell that made them sleep for weeks. But some parts of the caverns which were very hidden, were forgotten and no one ever woke the tshaharks sleeping there. So there they still sleep, though from time to time, a single tshahark wakes up and returns to life again.
It can still be found here in Section VI.
All knowledge is heresy. Yes, you heard me correctly.
It is the nature of religions to thrive on ignorance.

Post Reply