Alchemists... How do we roleplay good and evil?

[Zehren]

One thing I am particularly interested in is how is alchemy viewed in Geas? The word science has been tossed around but somehow I would be more partial towards abstracting it as mystical transformations of matter rather than as a science with the modern ring to it I cannot escape from feeling whenever science and scientific method is discussed IC.

I have had Zehren say "I do not practise this newfangled psaynce - I am a solemn lorist." before. Admittedly it is hard to take hobbits who pronounce themselves as solemn solemnly. Since alchemy IRL had as "main goals" to produce life elixirs and turning metals into gold, I have expressed this view in one of Zehren's smaller writings IG, and had Zehren mention occamists (like alchemy, just aiming for silver instead of gold!) when discussing Rinsed Curds.

One of my less learned characters has called alchemists for witches. Others refer to them as cauldronstirrers. My tshahark expressed the following view when confronted by an alchemist: "Ohhhhhhhhh...so makes beer does yes does beer makes strong yes does *grins broadly*"

I ache whenever someone mentions science IG, though. Of course, it is an ugly Latinderived word I shy away from IRL too.

[fernao]

Ewelyn and I surely wouldn't suffer each others presence in the alchemist guild for long. Apart from noticing the other being there and perhaps even a curteous nod I doubt either of us would stay while the other is there. So there is no working together, at least not directly.

If the research results of one of us would channel down through the other alchemists to the other is to be doubted. Most alchemists are rather secretive about their research and their results and sharing of research apart from concepts is rare, let alone whole formulas. True, formulas are exchanged, but usually only between folks you trust more or less explicetly, and there would never be such kind of trust between Sathos and Tanielites or Rangers.

As for the suggestion of two guilds, well, if it came to that, I'd more prefer it to be two locations of the same guild. There are few enough alchemists that have deeper knowledge and splitting them and their knowledge between two rivalring guilds would make the whole suffer. But I would definately not object to an alchemist outpost in Asador with a herb and part storage, a kettle and a library. However, the question would arise then, if it were to be located inside the city, with the guilds of The Order and the Sathonites controlling access to the city and therefore also to the guild location, or if there would be a small settlement or outpost in the north, somewhere in the tundra or arctic, which would be accessable to all, just like Bandama is now. I personally would opt for the second option, if it were to be.

[Nathan]

Perhaps I misspoke or people just misunderstood, but, I did not say the alchemists were bad roleplayers. I said that it was "bad roleplay" that outside of the guild halls there would be a definite fight between in say... Lucifer and Ewelyn but inside they just cooperate? That sounds like you are ignoring the RP guidelines that are given to you.... that is what I mean by Bad Roleplay.

Lumi, I think you just have a completely wrong impression of what happens in the Alchmists guild halls, or, what is supposed to happen.

Infact the relationships between people are not lifted, there is no need for corperation, not even a need to talk to each other. Alchemists are also free to hate each other (and infact some do), without forcing anyone to commit to bad roleplay.

Infact, if eg. Lucifer and Ewelyn meet somewhere on Arborean soils, there is absolutely no guarantee that a fight will happen, it's up to the players and to their RP.

Same applies to the Alchemists guild, if they should meet there, they again have a billion of options that do not lead into a situation where you will have to give up your RP, neither to break the guild rules.

[Nathan]

One thing I am particularly interested in is how is alchemy viewed in Geas? The word science has been tossed around but somehow I would be more partial towards abstracting it as mystical transformations of matter rather than as a science with the modern ring to it I cannot escape from feeling whenever science and scientific method is discussed IC.

I personally would like to see that Alchemists are commonly considered nearly as criminals, hey, they cook anything they find - or even worse, they kill anything to cook it afterwards, they most likely store tons of parts of livings of all kinds in their cellars - and additionally they might learn and use wichcraft in their dark halls.

I mean, their rep should be as questionable as the one of the mages maybe.

EDIT: But they are not played that way nowadays of course

[fernao]

Burn the witches!

Hehe, ok, we move the alchemists completely to Asador and rid the good hearted people of the south of this questionable source of witchcraft.

Ok, sarcasm aside... but it would be nice roleplay... and potions in herb stores only get sold in backrooms from now on, after all, its witchcraft!

[Delia]

From the help files "help magic"

Inside the local inn however, dark hushed tones speak of business with body parts and darker concoctions boiling in shadowy cellars spreading malignant fumes

[Allurana]

Overall the situation sounds to me like wanting two RP concepts that aren't necessarily compatible with one another.

A character whose RP expects them to attack enemies on sight, no matter what, are going to be incompatible with RP that expects characters to be tolerant of others. I don't think places like Scribes, Alchemists, Underground, Arborea, etc. should be OOCly reformed to allow for people who play outside the expected archetype for these places. Not everyone is going to be compatible with everything, not even these "min-maxing neutrals".

That is going to be the price of certain RP concepts. Want to play an evil? You won't get access to horses or the custom shop. Want to be a tshahark? You'll never be an academic. Want to play a fanatic? You won't fit into tolerant societies. Want to play a secular character? You won't get fancy miracles or unicorn mounts.

Earlier it was mentioned that the "you don't bother me and I won't bother you" aspect was contra-productive to the game... well, how would making multiple guild branches be any different? If you segregate the goods and evils away from one another so they can have everything they want without ever having to interact, you've created that exact same scenario.

While I might be wrong, I have a feeling the admins have intentionally had only one branch for Scribes/Alchemists to force people of different walks come under the same roof, because that creates friction, tension, conflict, and etc. And I would say if people are complaining about how they aren't getting their way, that means the admins have succeeded in this goal.

Lastly, if it's felt that Sathos or Thieves or whoever are breaking RP rules by doing or not doing certain things, this sounds like something that should be brought up to the playerarch rather than accused publicly on the forum.

[isengoo]

Not everyone should be fanatical. A neutral NPC might be just as disturbed by the Sathos sacrificing people as they are with Crusaders burning them alive.

[Allurana]

Yes, that too. The distinction between good and evil can blur a bit to commonfolk if either side is just as likely to accuse them of committing some divine sin or another and drag them off for "re-education".

At the end of the day, I think the average person is not going to care about morals and idealisms so much as surviving to see tomorrow.

While we know OOCly that Taniel is good and Sathonys is evil, ICly, from my experiences, at least some people walk the middle road not for the sake of "min-maxing", but because they see either extreme as no less totalitarian than the other, and thus "bad".

[Delia]

When I asked about how is alchemy viewed I was not interested in the good/evil bit as much I was in if it is seen more as a science as we players understand science or as something magical?

[Allurana]

I would say alchemy is more magicky than sciencey. That GEAS is a world with definite gods and magic, and presumably low education amongst the populaces, I think it can't be quite equated to RL alchemy, especially of modern views.

Plus, the help file mentions that alchemy is considered "low magic". Just because we no longer believe RL medicine is funky witchdoctor magic doesn't mean GEAS medicine can't actually be funky witchdoctor magic.

[Delia]

Speaking of Geas medicine...ever lacked the coins to pay the healer

[Allurana]

No, but I've heard horror stories and now I am curious to find out.

[Azaera]

I would say alchemy is more magicky than sciencey. That GEAS is a world with definite gods and magic, and presumably low education amongst the populaces, I think it can't be quite equated to RL alchemy, especially of modern views.

Plus, the help file mentions that alchemy is considered "low magic". Just because we no longer believe RL medicine is funky witchdoctor magic doesn't mean GEAS medicine can't actually be funky witchdoctor magic.

Agreed

[Zehren]

From my understanding of how alchemy works IG, you mix various items together, all the items having various attributes on their own, and need to balance these against one another to get the desired results. It certainly sounds sciencier than witchy.

But this newfangled psaynce is blasphemic witchcraft anyway

[Azaera]

As far as the actual practice of alchemy in game, it definitely has scientific aspects as Zehren is saying, but as far as how I believe the common person would view it... given there is no other science going on in the game - witchcrafty. The common person would have no clue what is actually going on behind closed doors.

[luminier]

What I am trying to say is.... BURN THE WITCH! BURN TO ASH AND BONE! MUAHAHAHHAH!

[fernao]

What I am trying to say is.... BURN THE WITCH! BURN TO ASH AND BONE! MUAHAHAHHAH!

Fine fine... Go ahead an start with Celia and Ewelyn.

[Skragna]

But there are so many other good choices for burninating...like Delmon!

[Allurana]

Delmon the Witch?

I knew elves were girly, but didn't know Delmon was hiding something...