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Delia's Wondrous Shoppe of Curious Oddities!

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Delia
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Delia's Wondrous Shoppe of Curious Oddities!

Postby Delia » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:37 am

In other words, I have been wrestling my brain about the relationship between mages and the rest of Forostar. Star amulets were mentioned in an other thread which lead me thinking that why yes, mages are a group that just happens to have access(not speaking of any guild provided access here) to all kinds of interesting objects and yes of course they can use magic towards various ends that other people can utilize and benefit from. This may or may not change somehow at some point. Mages are currently betaish what I understand so mages of tomorrow might be different from mages of today but that is what it is like with all other things as well.

Anyhoo, as a player I have been very reluctant to flood the game with, let us say, wands of useful level of power. Personally speaking this whole sharing of magical power has been very unexplored both in game and in theory. To what extend other people should be able to use "publicuse" items and what are the requirements? How would the world react to mages offering their services so lavishly?

I know there are people who wish magic to remain this secretive thing that cloistered hermits do when no prying eyes can see, I am bit of that same frame of mind actually, or was but I am now undecided as times change and the game changes and magical services have been mentioned before by some people. Be those services for ease of communication between people or something completely unrelated.

So as the thread title suggests, what if a mage chose to set up shop?
"To be is to do" - Sokrates
"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

ferranifer
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Re: Delia's Wondrous Shoppe of Curious Oddities!

Postby ferranifer » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:36 am

Delia wrote:I know there are people who wish magic to remain this secretive thing that cloistered hermits do when no prying eyes can see, I am bit of that same frame of mind actually, or was but I am now undecided as times change and the game changes and magical services have been mentioned before by some people. Be those services for ease of communication between people or something completely unrelated.


I am totally pro exposing more of what the Mages can do and offer. I think the current 'secretive' approach is extremely selfish. There is a TON of work put into the Mages that only a handful of people will ever get to enjoy. That's just a waste in a game made of volunteer work. As I mentioned in another post, most of the Mage stuff could be happening in another game and barely anyone would notice. Not saying Mages shouldn't have secrets. But there has got to be a balance between Mage uniqueness and the amount of developer time they absorb (which could be spent in other areas where every player benefits). This can come from the Mage players themselves or - if the admin would want to get more involved - it can be pushed by certain other game elements that involve or require the intervention of Mages (as discussed in other idea threads recently).

So, yes to opening the doors and spreading some of the Mage love (and hate) across the game. We need to stop sitting in the backroom eating the cake before it makes it to the dining hall.

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luminier
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Re: Delia's Wondrous Shoppe of Curious Oddities!

Postby luminier » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:07 pm

Ill buy all the wisdom buff scrolls you can sell me.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

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tanriel
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Re: Delia's Wondrous Shoppe of Curious Oddities!

Postby tanriel » Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:31 am

I think the current 'secretive' approach is extremely selfish.


There are always tradeoffs - for instance, make knowledge available to everyone and mysteries and secrets go away.

I remember that I spoke with PO Rafael, or perhaps it actually was Rafael, I don't remember; that player was a big fan of keeping magic rare and secretive, and if you look at comments by like PO Zehren, Rafael was roleplayed very well. I think you should keep that in mind too, when you consider other mages (or potential ones; I have no idea what happened to PO Rafael, whether he is playing or not).

There is a TON of work put into the Mages that only a handful of people will ever get to enjoy.


Yes - now you know how it feels if you have characters in an inactive guild and watch how others get the niceties. ;)

By the way, I am not sulking or anything like that. What I mean is that I think the guilds should all be treated equal. I don't mean to give them the same features or strength, but what I mean is that I think it is unfair to pour a lot of work into some guilds, but completely neglect others.

I understand that it is hard because builders also want to expand the options available for the game, and this is why in principle I support the notion of "sharing" - as in making magic more widespread and so forth. There are just things to consider.

I give you another example:

When 'who' was changed, PO Fernao wrote some suggestions on the wiki in regards to what could be done to make communication easier. Among these suggestions was to make communication more widespread too, similar to how the major guildorbs work too. Now those orbs have an IC background story, and magic that is widespread might obsolete communication like that (consider when mages can establish guild-like communication, that would be a major blow against some of the guilds; Rangers are the only major guild with zero unique features; even the Shaolins have something unique, aside from the combat style, and that is that their chi powers are stronger than others in a hardcoded manner).

That's just a waste in a game made of volunteer work.


Ok that is fine but what about other players who could not have a wizard/admin support them in a very broad way? Is their contribution of volunteering work any less?

Don't get me wrong - I am in favour of making magic more useful too, magical shops, expand on magic. It's also ok to have the mages be the uber beings.

What I am saying is:
- Keep the fairness in mind, in general.
- Keep the balance in mind as well.
- Keep the amount of difficulty in mind, for instance, how easy it is to distribute, how affordable something is. how large the monopoly should be.

As I mentioned in another post, most of the Mage stuff could be happening in another game and barely anyone would notice.


My character already saw way too much. Thankfully he forgets so quickly, but OOCly I let it up to others to PvP any mage .... ;)

But there has got to be a balance between Mage uniqueness and the amount of developer time they absorb (which could be spent in other areas where every player benefits).


Yep! I completely agree with you, BUT - the best resource the game has is called

PLAYERS.

At least to me, perhaps for some others as well.

That's also why the change to 'who' would have eliminated me from the game, whereas additions like the trap miracle, while very annoying, would not eliminate me because at worst it is a repetitive auto-loss, but I still have other players to interact with.

I think in general the builders focus too much on features or new areas.

Personally I think the players in general (all players, not any select subgroup) are by far the best asset for a MUD. The more active players you have, the more dynamics you automatically incur.

This can come from the Mage players themselves or - if the admin would want to get more involved - it can be pushed by certain other game elements that involve or require the intervention of Mages (as discussed in other idea threads recently).


There is only one problem here, and I am not against any of that - and this is how the clerics see the mages. I don't really see any real opposition to the mages. They seem to get the best features for no real resistance at all. Is this fair to other guilds that have to roleplay according to a strict set of rules?

My favourite idea would be the split the Order into two new guilds - both very strong. One agnostic of deities but hateful of magic and able to well perform against any mage, including a set of rituals that range from annoying up to permanent crippling (I know I know how mages would hate that; but if the chance is 0.00001% for that then it's more thrill than real threat ;)). The other more decisively and pro-actively evil, but I guess none of that is realistic without admins wanting to go that route. I just think that without Abharsair, admin may be too shy of PvP as a central theme for some guilds.

So, yes to opening the doors and spreading some of the Mage love (and hate) across the game. We need to stop sitting in the backroom eating the cake before it makes it to the dining hall.


I have nothing against that at all.

I just think that nice red pill should also come with the not so nice blue pill.

Btw that is my OOC opinion as a player, it has not much to do with my character's IC opinion.

In general I support all ideas to get the mages more involved into the game.

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Delia
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Re: Delia's Wondrous Shoppe of Curious Oddities!

Postby Delia » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:01 am

Magical buffs were mentioned. Sure a mage could sell them and using them would or would not be as easy as drinking a potion. A mage could probably make a good deal of money that way, perhaps even sell some attack magic that would tip the scales in a battle.

How would the world be affected?

PvP was mentioned, bit unrelated here but let me indulge nevertheless. Sure, a mage with some real fighting skills and related spells can be a tough cookie. Even more so if the mage sets the terms for the fight. In this case you are setup to lose against the mage. But the fighter mage will always be magically inferior to "proper mages" though it is always hard to tell because "the grind". You can also mess up with spellcasting in tons of ways unlike you can do against a cleric. Also anyone, a mage or priest or not, who has the skills and gets the jump on you has the upper hand. Big time. Anyhoo, if you have been dazzled witless by feats of magical prowess, the mages have just made a good job at showing off ;) The exact numbers of it are always more complex than you can see.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra


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