Vote for Our Mud on TMC!
 
 
Geas Home
 
Play the Game

How should we treat eachother?

Anything to say about roleplay? Want to share a story? This is the right place.

Moderator: Wizards

louis
Champion
Posts: 551
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:10 am
Location: The dark void

How should we treat eachother?

Postby louis » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:39 pm

Howdy people,
we quite frequently have situations in game, when players are really quite annoyed by other players and their way to play their char. This is, looking at our game setting, not very surprising, since your chars are oftenly (death) enemies ingame.

But sometimes feelings seem to go overboard, things get very personal, leaving not very much space for the others to RP and to enjoy the game (not blaming anyone here).

What I am interested in is, what do you think - do we have enough guidelines and agreements, that make sure that, regardless of the current ingame situaton, the game remains a place for everyone to enjoy oneself? And if not, what could/should we do? Would a "Players Agreement on Intercourse" maybe help to define how we would want to be treated by others? Or what else could we do?

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Your friendly wizards

User avatar
luminier
Overlord
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Manitoba Canada

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby luminier » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:58 pm

One thing I think everyone should understand is that we play this game -together-. Your enemies are your enemies not for your own enjoyment, but to have mutual fun. Play around! Have fun! You don't need to kill everyone all the time.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

Brom
Experienced
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:52 pm

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby Brom » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:06 pm

I think its pretty impossible to make enough rules to cover every individual situation. Its probably just a good idea to hear out people who have concerns on an individual basis and intervene when necessary.

For example related to a current situation, if there are players who have a personal vendetta against rogues (transferrig ooc motivations to IG motivations to a point of excess) and seek to absolutely destroy a player and guild, intervening on an individual basis may be necessary.

Brom
Experienced
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:52 pm

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby Brom » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:09 pm

Additionally for example, reminding a player that this is a game, and their actions may be making the game less enjoyable for someone else.

In this game especially ego reigns.

mazarmormuk
Veteran
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:47 pm
Contact:

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby mazarmormuk » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:44 am

i feel the need to add a positive aspect here, too..
If people get into feelings, the game did reach its goal to drag people into it like a good book does.
I like that very much and i dont think this game would be fun if we all played it from the outside of the happenings.

I guess that in many cases it would help if players helped each others ooc to understand the created situations from the other side.
So if someone would destroy a character or guild with his action, i would really wish a call to the ooc area, maybe together with a wizard or a neutral, to get the results of the rp explained.

I havent been part against the thieves, but i liked ghalts reaction in the forum, and i love to see him around again, although i think this could have happened earlier. however, it gave the chance to react and adjust.

louis
Champion
Posts: 551
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:10 am
Location: The dark void

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby louis » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:53 am

Of course, there is always the option of wizard intervention on a personal basis (but then, its already too late usually, the damage is already caused).

What I am seeking a solution for is some "agreement amongst players" to prevent the worst before things turned that bad that wizard intervention is made necessary / before the other player left the game / before the damage is that large that it is not really fixable anymore / before <you name it> .

A player should imo be able to inform this coplayers in time that an ingame situation is about to reach personal bounds, something like "that far and not further please".

Or so. Thoughts?

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2489
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby Delia » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:45 am

I think a few lines of OOC here and there might do the trick or asking them to meet in the OOC room and establishing some guidelines. I think you could hint at where you are going with your RP even if that ruins your "tactical advantage"or any other edge. You could also tells how you would probably react as a player and a character to certain things. Heck, you could even agree and make a script of some future event and play it accordingly if things are too sensitive otherwise. You can always drop a line of OOC when things begin to deviate(as they always will)to correct the course or make new agreements between players.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates
"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

ghalt
Master
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby ghalt » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:45 pm

Delia wrote:I think a few lines of OOC here and there might do the trick or asking them to meet in the OOC room and establishing some guidelines.
I think this only works if the other party is willing to interact with you in good faith, or at least if there’s some common ground between the two parties. I've had fairly poor experiences. It’s… if someone went too far in a pvp fight, I can point to fair play rules. If someone goes too far in a roleplaying arc that’s doing vastly more damage to me or my character than a death tax? I’ve got nothing to point to.

So... apropos of nothing!
Let's talk harassment!
some wikipedia article on harassment wrote:This is humiliating, intimidating or abusive behaviour which is often difficult to detect leaving no evidence other than victim reports or complaints. This characteristically lowers a person’s self-esteem or causes them torment. This can take the form of verbal comments, engineered episodes of intimidation, aggressive actions or repeated gestures.

This is... if Phelan defeats me and captures me, he's going to roleplay being a villain at me, possibly sacrifice me, then return my gear somewhere and I can go to the marketplace and brag about how brave I was under the assault. That's not harassment. It's him roleplaying a bad guy. I've seen others just pick people as targets and they just do not do not ever let up over days or weeks or years. They've found a victim and they're not letting go, and this is treated as a valid tool in their roleplaying arsenal.

Maybe I'm overreacting? But to me this is an attack upon the player at the other end of the keyboard, and that shit needs to stop. But it's so hard to define when someone’s crossing a line and harder to prove, so it's largely ignored.

In a larger game/or mmo, we would have an ignore feature, and we could apply it if someone was causing us grief or we just genuinely unfortunately did not get along for no one's fault. That... doesn't really work within our roleplaying environment, nor with our small playerbase, but we still have the same issues that call for such a feature--namely that if you get enough people together, everyone just is not going to get along all the time, and we need to remember that?

User avatar
Rudolpho
Professional
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:19 am
Location: Memphis, Tennessee, USA

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby Rudolpho » Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:47 pm

Alas, there's not much that can really be done when you have a player who has decided to go out of his way to run off another character permanently. One who wants them to "die forever." (Which as we all know is IC code for stop playing altogether.) Should that be allowed? Probably not, but there's not much anyone can do. "Oh, but that's my roleplay. I'm roleplaying an ass-hat." So just run off the player you've developed some personal vendetta against. Who the hell cares if you ruin his fun or the fun of those who play with him and ask him to return? So long as he gets his way.

User avatar
Arsicas
Veteran
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:20 am

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby Arsicas » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:47 am

At what point does it become ruining other players' fun, I'm curious? Certainly some characters will not get along and will not like the actions of other characters. And some characters may very well be asshats, particularly when the game is so polarized in terms of religion and certain beliefs just do not mix. Is there a point when it becomes harassing of the player rather than the character? Do you think that some players should back off their characters' roleplay when it gets to that point? Like Luminier has said, he's not really playing as ardent a Crusader as he probably should be because that just wouldn't be as fun for anyone. And no, it wouldn't be fun to be killed every time you log on just because your character is not liked by the majority of the realms. I think there is a bit of fudge room in that regard to make it interactive in a fun way. Maybe there can be an agreement that when things do reach the point of going too far and becoming unenjoyable that the players can back off? I think we do all want the game to be enjoyable, and honestly, it's probably not worth it to keep going with an arc that is causing other players grief. I'm not saying go totally against your character, but at least keep your actions reasonable.
Duncan hisses in Common: love not keepzss zssomeone alive
You speak softly in Common: Sometimes it's all that keeps one
alive.
You smile slightly.

ghalt
Master
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby ghalt » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:07 am

Arsicas wrote:Is there a point when it becomes harassing of the player rather than the character?
I would say if someone's harassing another character with the intent to defeat them, they're just harassing the player. And using the ooc/ic divide as a shield to protect behavior that's completely socially unacceptable. Things aren't okay just because you say them with say and not @say. We've got a lot more leeway with say! But that doesn't mean just anything goes?

User avatar
Sairina
Hero
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby Sairina » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:54 am

The problem is that their intent is hard to prove. We can only ban certain actions in our rules - say, repeatedly killing a character in a short span of time. And there's definitely a lot of things that it's ok to say in character that would be absolutely inacceptable in modern real life, so how do you even make rules against harrassment in a roleplaying envrionment, as long as everything being said remains in-character? Where would you draw the line?

ghalt
Master
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby ghalt » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:11 am

I put it this way: we have a problem right now. This is an issue. And if we draw lines so that folk have to be a little less of an asshole ic I don't thing that's going to harm the game?

I mean: I left when I did because someone was chasing me around whispering death threats in my ear or making certain I was publically humiliated whenever they saw me. I'm taking a break again because someone's decided that one of my friends is their nemesis and every interaction they have will them will be as miserable as possible, regardless of what that guy does.

What value do either of these things add to the game? Because we're not having fun playing designated victim.

User avatar
luminier
Overlord
Posts: 2732
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:40 pm
Location: Manitoba Canada

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby luminier » Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:05 am

I am reminded of a time where I had to choose between ignoring a situation and being an asshole. Unfortunately, I chose to be an asshole and my victims were an asshole to me.

Honestly, the -only- thing I can think of is to keep in OOC contact with the players -BEFORE- things get out of control. I think now it's too late and hind sight is 20/20.

Recently, I kept in constant IC contact and OOC contant with players and was able to make it so I didn't have to do crazy things like start a huge war that would never end.

Basically, this is going to get solved IC. Ill make sure of it. And no one will quit. I am confident.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

mazarmormuk
Veteran
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:47 pm
Contact:

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby mazarmormuk » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:27 am

hmm, well, i m doing currently some fight training in rl.

It is quite the same OOC/IC situation before and after the fight, so lets compare the game here with that:
1, Each hit is adjusted to situation and enemy(IC)/partner(OOC) and nearly never used in full power
2, It is absolutely mandatory to ask before you hit hard.
3, and it is common if you hit harder than intented to take initiative as the offender to ask if the other one is still feeling ok.
4, You would be expelled from the current training directly if the victim expressed whatever negative feelings and you would be ongoing.
5, the situation that someone needs to complain to the master would definately end with beeing completely expelled.

The result of that ooc-information in that case is that there is a constant action-reaction-flow, having a lot of fun even against far weaker enemies.

This might sound as if i talked about ingame combat only, but what i mean is all ic action in general.

Mogwai
Veteran
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:15 pm

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby Mogwai » Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:52 am

There is a problem here and until people figure out how to do things different it will just repeat itself. :?

My OOC goal was to get more players to come back to geas.

IC: my goal was to provide a different contrast of a villainy available.

Including myself I was able to get 6 players into/back into geas in 2 months.

POLoreena, myself, PODelmon, 2 other former mudders, and POUrik. :D

I came back for a bit because I liked the wizards and I thought "you know helping this game flourish is worth it because of them". :)

2 months later...

People tried to make the game so unpleasant for us that I said to myself why the fuck am I trying to grow a game to give more depth to our playerbase when people's RP is so abrasive that recruits/I don't even enjoy the game. :evil:

I refuse to treat a game like work and play something other people try and make unenjoyable. :?

Few other players seemed to understood that geas runs better with more people and I understand few people can see the big picture like that unless it's 20/20 hindsight.

Just remember that because we're so stubborn we lose 6 players. :roll:

Cause: You want your 'always enemy and ostracizing type RP' so be it.
Effect: you can chill at the fountains waiting for RP diversity that was killed off. :(

Understand those actions will continue to keep the playerbase low and actions have consequences IC and OOC always :|

just my observations,
happy geasing :D

ferranifer
Hero
Posts: 365
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:16 am
Location: Norway

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby ferranifer » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:14 pm

Code: Select all

You travel a long distance west.
It's Day.
 On a bridge over the river Ulflenn. The Western Road crosses over the river
 at this point, continuing to the east towards a mighty fortress. A
 dense-looking forest stands to the east of here, bordered by the road. The
 mighty Giat Mountains stand against the horizon in the distance. The river
 Ulflenn flows to the southeast into the Icecall Lake. The Amward Plains
 extend to the southwest.
Exits(2): e[r], w[r]. --
24 copper coins, a smoldering small campfire and three bronze coins.
A huge scaly neuter scrag and two large blue-bearded male thurses.
The huge scaly neuter scrag attacks you.
The large blue-bearded male thurse attacks you.
The large blue-bearded male thurse attacks you.
The large blue-bearded male thurse smashes his heavy twohander at your torso, but you dodge his attack.

The large blue-bearded male thurse smashes his heavy twohander at your head, slashes through your felt hat and cuts deep into your head, down to the bone.
The large blue-bearded male thurse cuts with his heavy twohander deep into your head and splits your skull.

You died. You can see your dead body from above.
Your ghost state allows you to travel 'start'.


Apropos, please someone remind me how this is civil, fun or fair.

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2489
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby Delia » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:00 pm

Personally, I like it a bit rough but yes, I kinda understand what you mean though.

Still, some danger areas are so established for a chance of instant death that if you go there alone you are toast. Amward darkelves are more than capable of killing you with one shot unless you are really big, armoured and fightery.

Scouting is an easily forgetten possibility that can lead to death when neglected. I do not mean that as salt on your wounds when writing this though, just something I try to keep in mind myself from time to time.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

glorfindel
Hero
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:08 pm

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby glorfindel » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:35 am

Hoi,

For me, as has been said by many others, the most important thing is to remember you are playing with other people, not against them, even with them being your enemy and sometimes you hate them a lot.

I think the first rule anybody should consider, something that you would not want to suffer, think twice before you do it to someone else. I said in some other thread, there are plenty of other ways to achieve something, you don't have to take the most painful route for the other player. Just imaging yourself on the receiving end of your 'medicine' for once and you'll likely realize that some things are just never OK.

Also, always remember there's a human being behind the character and that human being is not a verbal punching bag. There are things that should never be said or done, no matter what. Try to treat the person behind the screen civil and sometimes, opt for not doing the harshest method possible just because your character is the 'most uber ass ever born and he hates everyone and tries to destroy them'. You are still dealing with human beings.

Furthermore, be mindful of others. If you have the feeling something is getting to someone, maybe pull them aside? If you are about to do something that you have the feeling the other person would suffer from, maybe check if the PO is fine?

Also, don't always destroy years of work just because 'your character would do it'.

Aslak
Master
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:58 am

Re: How should we treat eachother?

Postby Aslak » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:30 am

Code: Select all

You travel a long distance west.
It's Day.
 On a bridge over the river Ulflenn. The Western Road crosses over the river
 at this point, continuing to the east towards a mighty fortress. A
 dense-looking forest stands to the east of here, bordered by the road. The
 mighty Giat Mountains stand against the horizon in the distance. The river
 Ulflenn flows to the southeast into the Icecall Lake. The Amward Plains
 extend to the southwest.
Exits(2): e[r], w[r]. --
24 copper coins, a smoldering small campfire and three bronze coins.
A huge scaly neuter scrag and two large blue-bearded male thurses.
The huge scaly neuter scrag attacks you.
The large blue-bearded male thurse attacks you.
The large blue-bearded male thurse attacks you.
The large blue-bearded male thurse smashes his heavy twohander at your torso, but you dodge his attack.

The large blue-bearded male thurse smashes his heavy twohander at your head, slashes through your felt hat and cuts deep into your head, down to the bone.
The large blue-bearded male thurse cuts with his heavy twohander deep into your head and splits your skull.

You died. You can see your dead body from above.
Your ghost state allows you to travel 'start'.


It is the same as giant undeads. They are obviously accepted and a wanted form of IC harassment.
I personally do not like any of them, and would go well without using NPCs to do your dirty job. I recently took more or less a pause because of crusader towers popping up all over Arborea, when I removed one in half an ooc hour, 3-4 new had popped up already (and of cause because Pillars of Eternity).
By the way, a thanks to the Satho players for restraining themself lately and not placing their undeads whereever they can and where it hurts people most, but for placing them mostly on their borders and not at deathtraps.


Return to “Roleplay”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron