Identifying unknown characters

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Ioca
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Identifying unknown characters

#1 Post by Ioca » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:12 pm

Hello!

This is a little bit of a rant that I feel is overdue, but important.

Sometimes people might see a grisly elf wearing a mask, and immediately just "know" that it's a certain character. Of course it's easy to know the truth - everyone has access to the "who" command. But, I feel that bringing that information IC is the epitome of poor roleplay.

People wearing masks or other things to hide their identities are unknown. It shouldn't be roleplayed that anyone -knows- their real identity. There are a -lot- of elves and darkelves and halflings and other things in the world beyond just the known players. There is _likely_ more than one female darkelf in the world who wears a deathpriest mask. Sure, maybe appraising her will tell you that she's exactly as tall as that darkelf you met the other day, but if she's not acting like that darkelf you met the other day, and isn't claiming to be the darkelf you met the other day, then there simply isn't any evidence that she's the darkelf you met the other day.

Masks and disguises should be roleplayed as what they are, otherwise they're pointless. An especially egregious thing that has actually happened is when a masked person gets in an altercation with someone, and that person immediately calls them our for being their real name. "Oh, you think you're fooling me, Aisa?" Well, yeah, the point of those things is to fool you, and the only reason you'd know otherwise is genuinely through metagaming about it. Well done on using the who command and/or knowing that there's only one or two active people able to use that particular method of hiding their identity OOCly.

Anyway, that's my rant!

Lauriert
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#2 Post by Lauriert » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:13 pm

Well, I mean, sometimes it's justified. For example, if someone sees a darkelf wearing a grisly, blood red mask, and is using a spear and martial arts, they're gonna be like "Yep, Delmon." Especially since Delmon is known to be the only darkelf who is active and using such a mask. Death priest masks though, can and should be more tricky to determine who it is.

Ioca
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#3 Post by Ioca » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:28 pm

I disagree. I disagree 1000%. That's metagaming to an extreme level!

So-and-so may be the only active -player- member of the Order, of the Rogues, or the Deathpriests, or this guard or that guild, but there are countless NPCs in the world. With that mindset, there is no leaway at all for people to roleplay masks or disguises.

If you see a darkelf wearing an Order mask, that isn't Delmon. That is a "an unidentified darkelf wearing an Order mask" until it introduces itself as Delmon - or otherwise why is he wearing the mask? And as an aside, some people put -extreme- amounts of effort into hiding their appearance, to the point of using different weaponry and entirely different classes of armour than they would normally wear.

However, if you walk into a room and see Delmon put his mask on, yeah, that's him, obviously.

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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#4 Post by ghalt » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:29 pm

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Last edited by ghalt on Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lauriert
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#5 Post by Lauriert » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:33 pm

You can also tell by their body proportions after appraising them, as well as their fighting style if you know them well enough.

I can also tell, say, if said darkelf attacks me immediately, it's Delmon. Because he is the only one who'd have that tendency while wearing an order mask.

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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#6 Post by Ioca » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:42 pm

Once more, Forostar has more darkelves than just the two or three active ones. It is probably -sprawling- with darkelves you don't see in the background. What's more, spears are by far the most popular weapon I've noticed people using in the game.

I'm not budging on this one - I'm outright saying it is absolutely terrible RP, or an entire lack of RP, to "just know" that a random masked person is so-and-so.

Edit:

I'm not saying you shouldn't _suspect_ that it's Delmon, though. I'm just saying you don't _know_ it's Delmon. There's no way.
Last edited by Ioca on Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Arsicas
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#7 Post by Arsicas » Sun Jan 03, 2021 5:46 pm

I think the character’s behavior can lend itself to identification though. Delmon’s been hanging around Elvandar a lot lately, both in his mask and without it. Now, when I see a darkelf in an Order mask, I’m going to go “Oh, probably Delmon.” Of course, the first time I saw a darkelf in an Order mask, I didn’t think it was him at all.

Similarly, I’ve seen some characters I OOC knew were X in disguise, but if they weren’t acting like X, I’m going to treat them like a different character. But put enough behaviors together and I’m going to piece together who it is. And I don’t just mean like “X uses a rapier and knife and this char uses a rapier and knife!” Because sure, a lot of characters might use a rapier and knife.

Also, I think appraising someone and deciding it’s X that way is pretty cheesy. I’d base it more on IC actions.
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Israfel
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#8 Post by Israfel » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:00 pm

I hope Delmon is okay with us revealing his masked identity to the world.

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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#9 Post by Melendil » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:21 pm

There are lots of VNPCs, yes, but to my mind they're background filler kinda people who do nothing exciting or out of the ordinary. Just milling around fields growing turnips, or whatever culturally appropriate spod jobs are available.

Player characters are more like celebrities (to greater or lesser degrees). It's likely people will assume it's another player character when they encounter someone they can't recognise, especially if the unknown person more or less fits a description and displays exceptional talent. Characters like Delmon are probably nigh on fairytale legends by this stage. Any vaguely threatening dark elf is likely to send kids screaming home yelling "it's Delmon, it's Delmon" even if it's not him, possibly even if it's just a wild animal rustling in the bushes. Every knight they see will be a member of the crusade, every person they see holding a wand "Is that Whitecrow?"

I think in general, the inclination would be to believe that encountering people doing noteworthy things is likely to make them think of a PC rather than a nameless shit-shoveller :)

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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#10 Post by Delmon » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:45 pm

I personally don't have any issues with the current situation of my char or assumptions so far used to determine who he is. I am sure there are intelligent characters out there that can figure it out with a number of justifiable means.

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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#11 Post by Zehren » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:56 pm

VNPCs are generally peasant nobodies, just like new PCs tend to be.

I also disagree with any 'sprawling' population claims - Forostar has always felt relatively low-population to me, thanks to being a constantly war-devastated continent, the amount of visible NPCs, and bits and pieces of the lore.

I also think elves know every other existent elf by family relation, and that the whole elf population is inbred at this point (which makes tracking the closest family relation a lot easier).

It's unfortunately fairly common to jump to conclusions about knowing which disguised char is which thanks to OOC means. It's also unfortunately common to jump to the conclusion of OOC means being how the figuring-out happened.
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ila
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#12 Post by ila » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:05 am

gone
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Ioca
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#13 Post by Ioca » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:24 am

I mean...

I'm at least starting to understand where some people are coming from at this point. The problem is, it's just not how it is. I've been told by admins it's just not how it is. Disguises likely wouldn't be a thing in the game if the game was how people are saying they think it is.

Forostar is extremely populated to the point where if you do something sneaky in a cave in the middle of a forest, you will definitely, 100%, no room for error be seen and watched by someone snooping nearby, who will rumour it back to the nearest major city faster than fast. This is pretty much canon - this is the mechanics of the game.

Disguises are intended to disguise the identities of characters from other characters. Not playing along with that is pretty malicious.

Quoting "help reputation" --

In order for your local reputation to change, a person (either
NPC or another player character) must see you perform the deed.
However, remember that there are more people in the world of Geas
than you actually note while playing. A person may see you while
passing by on the road, or while peeping through the curtains of
her house, and you will never notice they are there.

ila
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#14 Post by ila » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:32 am

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Zehren
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#15 Post by Zehren » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:54 am

Ioca wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:24 am Forostar is extremely populated to the point where if you do something sneaky in a cave in the middle of a forest, you will definitely, 100%, no room for error be seen and watched by someone snooping nearby, who will rumour it back to the nearest major city faster than fast. This is pretty much canon - this is the mechanics of the game.
Nah, several areas have had the reputation system disabled after an argument that it's not somewhere there'd really be many people to observe.
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#16 Post by Zehren » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:56 am

ila wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:05 am I'd personally estimate Forostar's populations in the millions at least, and also personally disagree that elves are sparse by any definition.

This is based on actual medieval-time cities having populations in the hundreds of thousands, with numerous cities, and sprawling populations between them (see: the reputation system).
Please find me IRL statistics for a small continent under constant attack (for a thousand years) by two different evil hordes (lilithians + insects), thanks.
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Zehren
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#17 Post by Zehren » Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:58 am

ila wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:32 am As for NPCs being peasants, if Forostar is so war-torn, you'd expect there to be no shortage of thieves or bandits to fill in for the players. Truthfully there should be, but I assume it is a courtesy to the players that they don't have to worry about getting mugged or pick-pocketed or whatnot by NPCs.

In fact I'm pretty sure there are a few background NPC thieves in Arborea's marketplace messages. Surely at least a couple of those could disguise themselves.
That's fair, and indeed there's a bandit camp of humans (pesky quick breeders) near Arborea.
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#18 Post by Zehren » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:06 am

Ioca wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:24 am I've been told by admins it's just not how it is.

Forostar is extremely populated to the point where if you do something sneaky in a cave in the middle of a forest, you will definitely, 100%, no room for error be seen and watched by someone snooping nearby, who will rumour it back to the nearest major city faster than fast. This is pretty much canon - this is the mechanics of the game.
Wizzies have never - to my knowledge - given any canonical demographics for Forostar. I'm guessing you've received one wizard's personal opinion on the matter.
(If Forostar populations are canonically in the millions, I'll quit because that's not the game I have been playing or want to play. That falls into high-fantasy/optimistic setting, in my opinion, not the dark fantasy setting Geas advertises as.)
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ila
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#19 Post by ila » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:07 am

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ila
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Re: Identifying unknown characters

#20 Post by ila » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:09 am

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