Refusal, An Explanation.

[Lauriert]

I've tried learning light armour and deflect just for stats, but I actually can't. As it is, I don't think I can encumber him even with the heaviest light armour.

If heavy armour is balanced to be better, I'd try out pvp in that system and see what I have to say afterwards.

[Delia]

Some rp stuff as this is a rp thread:

Over the years I have observed players being very inflexible with their rp, like it is some private immutable thing that other forces save their own will cannot affect. Very natural and I am not trashing anyone here. I have been guilty of this too. What I have began to think over the years is that... If the other side is so crushingly strong... Why not give them the big win and just stop with the eternal stubborn resistance. Say, "Ok, you beat us, what now our new overlords?"

Hear me out, I bet lot of evils are feeling pretty hamstrung with their rp against eternally unyielding champions of light and good who after dozens of deaths continue the same thing which just might reduce baddies to a "Grr, me evil, you die now"-role.

Imagine Order calling the shots in Elvandar, Sathonys enslaving Arborea and Lilith just causing a huge ruckus in the middle. Could be juicy and fun stuff! Instead of ceaseless pvp with almost clearly predefined winners, the evils would have a civilized field to participate in. Atleast for a while and it would be a change. Too little changes in Geas.

[Lauriert]

If you want that, I'd ask about making who controls what city more malleable so that evils can take over and the goods have to go into hiding until they can rebel and take over. Would make for a fantastic storyline assuming mechanics are fair.

[ferranifer]

You grossly underestimate the size and skill of Delmon, both as a character and as a player.

While Lauriert has good (not great) skills, his stats are just ok-ay for a human midbie. PvE and duels are an incredibly poor measure for PvP performance. To fight people the caliber of Delmon, you have to firsty develop and then bring your A game. Delmon would decimate Lauriert even if he was guildless. It'd be no contest whatsoever.

Skragna is a very poor reference for power and his opinions about both his own character and everybody else's are chronically and dramatically exaggerated. All Skragna (the character) ever had going was hitting hard when he hit, which is something every tshahark does. While that can fluke-luck win you a fight, it is not enough.

Luminier's character would not survive in the current environment based on stats alone. He was also a notoriously good PvPer. If you were to play it, you'd get slaughtered. If he was to play it, he'd struggle even if using the whole extent of his player skill and knowledge. There are more than a dozen characters nowadays that are leaps and bounds larger and more dangerous than Luminier ever was.

Avisa and Kain were both already top tier characters before they joined the Order. Again, superstition vs fact.

Lauriert as he currently exists does not stand a chance alone and it's pointless for you to keep trying a direct open fight. If you want to be competitive in PvP combat, you have to develop your character and your skill and you have to be integrating yourself in teams that do stand a chance. And from what I've seen, for teams to stand a chance, a lot of stuff needs to happen too. Standing there and hoping for a good hit on a top tier character is not a good strategy. Basic core organization and tactical skills are just not present in a lot of what I've seen. Those also take time to develop.

Other characters (who do lose against Delmon regularly) are in fact running RP threats and storylines with him. Not sure why you're struggling with the inability to integrate into the RP threads but it's likely related with your inability to have a fair view of your character's capabilities.

None of the above justifies:

• coming up with ridiculous IC claims about being immune to pain and not caring about death
• throwing yourself against certain death repeatedly in protest
• unilaterally deciding to break the rules of the game

Those are unfair coping mechanisms. I'd start with a change in attitude.

[Lauriert]

This wasn't even initially about my PvP experiences specifically, I just provided them as evidence to something because people tend to trust first hand experience best. I'm trying to make an educated argument. I don't really mind losing as long as it's for the right reasons. My intention wasn't to call Delmon weak, but to suggest he seems a lot better than any mechanic in the game would suggest, regardless of strategy, and it wasn't anything against the player or any accusation of cheating rather it was part of a trend I was noticing about the Order through many experiences including my own. I gave Lauriert's stats/skills to show he's a solid character and not useless by any means.

I wanted to explain why I was feeling frustrated and why I felt this way instead of just ignoring people with no explanation. If I have to grind, sure. But I want to make sure it's actually possible to win and I'm not just wasting my time on something futile. Because everything I've seen and heard IC and OOC would suggest that the Order buff just makes them unbeatable even if all your relevant stats were mythical.

Simply put, if there is a guild this powerful, and it's as powerful as it seems, why should I even bother learning how to PVP, or improving my character, or whatever else?

If Delmon is truly this strong, then I don't really have a problem. In fact, it would make training to kill him more satisfying if I succeeded. Revenge and everything. It would serve as great motivation. But if that's not possible because of an unbalanced guild buff, why would I want to beat my head against a brick wall if nothing can come of it?

[Zehren]

If Delmon is truly this strong

game mechanics beyond skills and stats are still part of the characters and their capabilities.
a midbie can well defeat several lowbies.
a highbie can well defeat several midbies.

ridiculous IC claims about being immune to pain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenita ... ty_to_pain

[roxvod]

ridiculous IC claims about being immune to pain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenita ... ty_to_pain

If this is the case and your character is truly a person who doesn't feel pain, has little to no concept of it-- I hope they don't flee from any combat and always fight to the death like some oddjob berserker because they don't perceive their own injuries and always assume they are in tip-top condition until they realize they're standing over their own corpse as a ghost. I would find it strange if they even tended to their broken bones or stopped their bleeding at all. Why care of such things or realize them if you can't feel pain after all?

If so, that is a great, unique and quirky concept for a character at the detriment to your own growth in favour of a cool story. Kudos!

[ferranifer]

That character concept is not supported by the game.
Just like a character concept for a person with 3 arms or for a permanently deaf person is not supported by the game. And no, magic doesn't count! Shoo Zehren!
Your character is not going to stop screaming in pain. Game mechanics cannot simply be ignored when it's most convenient.

It's also a blatant passive-aggressive power dynamic to claim you cannot feel pain to escape the consequences of your actions. Or that death doesn't affect you. These are straight inane ramblings IC.

[Lauriert]

@Ferrinifer
I requested the wizards disable forced scream emotes related to pain when I explained what my rp was, and they did it for me. There are real nerve conditions that prevent the perception of pain.

@Roxvod
I only make Lauriert flee a fight if
A. He's bleeding a lot, to where he could see it
B. His body feels weak (like if he's really close to dead)
C. He takes a hit that is very obviously bad (like getting pierced by a huge black broadsword)
And yes, I do play him very recklessly to his own detriment. I play him to disregard broken limbs and pain to his own risk.

[ferranifer]

@Ferrinifer
I requested the wizards disable forced scream emotes related to pain when I explained what my rp was, and they did it for me. There are real nerve conditions that prevent the perception of pain.

Kudos to you then. I find this absolutely terrible precedent and wish they hadn't.

[roxvod]

That character concept is not supported by the game.
Just like a character concept for a person with 3 arms or for a permanently deaf person is not supported by the game. And no, magic doesn't count! Shoo Zehren!
Your character is not going to stop screaming in pain. Game mechanics cannot simply be ignored when it's most convenient.

Sad, but truth of Geas right here. Mechanics have to be integrated to roleplay. If you get a message that says your character is sobbing in tears because their broken leg feels like it will fall off... That means you probably should whimper around and act like your leg is going to fall off. Those aren't just fluff, they are there to add realism to our characters. On a different note, if your character is mute, deaf, any variant of a permanently incapable person, I will assume you have wronged the gods so dearly that no cleric of any faith offers you their services. They can regrow limbs, fixing some life-threatening deficiency of 'not feeling any pain' is not implausible.

[Lauriert]

People, good and bad, ICly think there is something demonic to it. So it is a detriment to combat but also social standing potentially.

I mailed poDelmon with mud mail about it to assure him I wasn't doing this to spit in his face and it was just part of the character's roleplay. I play other characters who feel pain. Torturing them would get you quite a reaction honestly, but I won't reveal much more than that.

[ferranifer]

That character concept is not supported by the game.
Just like a character concept for a person with 3 arms or for a permanently deaf person is not supported by the game. And no, magic doesn't count! Shoo Zehren!
Your character is not going to stop screaming in pain. Game mechanics cannot simply be ignored when it's most convenient.

Sad, but truth of Geas right here. Mechanics have to be integrated to roleplay. If you get a message that says your character is sobbing in tears because their broken leg feels like it will fall off... That means you probably should whimper around and act like your leg is going to fall off. Those aren't just fluff, they are there to add realism to our characters. On a different note, if your character is mute, deaf, any variant of a permanently incapable person, I will assume you have wronged the gods so dearly that no cleric of any faith offers you their services. They can regrow limbs, fixing some life-threatening deficiency of 'not feeling any pain' is not implausible.

Indeed, this would be my response. I would immediately bring you to a cleric and ask the gods to fix you. And if that doesn't work, I'd help you get a new body instead. And if that doesn't work I'd assume the gods have shunned you and act accordingly (which brings terrible consequences).

It's nonsense IC.

[Lauriert]

CIP is caused by abnormalities in brain chemistry. It's an issue ingrained in the DNA of a person essentially, so no amount of new bodies would do anything. You could argue more people should shun him for it I suppose.

If you want to hurt him, you have to find other ways to do it besides the incredibly boring "I'm gonna torture you!" or "I'm gonna kill you!"

[ferranifer]

If you want to hurt him, you have to find other ways to do it besides the incredibly boring "I'm gonna torture you!" or "I'm gonna kill you!"

How awfully unique and convenient.

[Lauriert]

Far as I know, I'm the only person to play such a character, which is fitting since CIP is a rare condition. And if people respect that, it won't become a trend.

I'm not really sure how this conversation went from me wanting to make sure I'm not grinding for nothing and beating my head against a brick wall, to this. I fail to see why my character's roleplay was relevant to this.

[ferranifer]

Far as I know, I'm the only person to play such a character, which is fitting since CIP is a rare condition. And if people respect that, it won't become a trend.

I'm not really sure how this conversation went from me wanting to make sure I'm not grinding for nothing and beating my head against a brick wall, to this. I fail to see why my character's roleplay was relevant to this.

You throwing yourself to certain death against Delmon as an IC act of OOC protest is how this is relevant to your RP.

[Lauriert]

ICly, Lauriert doesn't throw himself per say, he just doesn't really care when it happens so he's inclined to fight Delmon since he feels there's no consequence to it. This actually conflicts with my OOC interest of not wanting to restore his vitality, but, gotta play the character for what I made him for instead of just arbitrarily changing two key parts of his character. The only protest I'd be doing is that I would want nothing to do with a situation where I'm bound to lose no matter how much work I put in and that's what I'm trying to find out.

[ferranifer]

ICly, Lauriert doesn't throw himself per say, he just doesn't really care when it happens so he's inclined to fight Delmon since he feels there's no consequence to it. This actually conflicts with my OOC interest of not wanting to restore his vitality, but, gotta play the character for what I made him for instead of just arbitrarily changing two key parts of his character. The only protest I'd be doing is that I would want nothing to do with a situation where I'm bound to lose no matter how much work I put in and that's what I'm trying to find out.

So Lauriert cannot feel pain and is also immune to death penalties?

[Lauriert]

He's not immune to death penalties, I still have to restore his vitality when he dies. He just doesn't value his life for complex reasons which developed overtime.