Shao-Lin

[Delia]

Yeah, any step system-wise towards D&D is a bad step taken, IMO.

[gojin]

I personally like the realism of it all and would mourn if it all disappeared. If you learn something you do not magically forget it. Makes sense. I'd rather have the internal logic of the game make sense and players be responsible than have any nonsense around.

The system how Geas works was one of the things that attracted me to the game in the first place and kept me here. Would be a shame to lose it.

Definately, aside from the fact that it would have crippled my char who I played as a straight shao even after leaving the guild, it would kill the 'realism' of the combat system in Geas which is the backbone of what makes this the best mud around.

[Delia]

Clothes...the shaos have their robes which are nice but also are just about the only thing they receive materials wise. I have been thinking if some shao clothes could be added to the temple, I am not speaking of anything like superb quality pants that protect like steel or anything. Mainly only about good quality clothes that have a good shao feel.

Usually shaos end up using all the regular leather trousers and all that stock stuff people use which really does not help to separate them. The question is, what is the general shao look? That of the starving buddhist beggar monk? Atleast the less is more approach is what has been going for ages. I think change should be possible if the ideas are good. Come on now, design the shao-lin of the 1121 spring season!

Btw, yes the mud needs clothes in abundance in general and other such misc stuff for the non-guild characters. Such stuff has been submitted though, a matter of time when and if any arrive in game. Nor this imply that the shaos are necessarily getting anything, might be good for pondering about custom items as well.

[tessa]

I'm going to get Tessa a pretty pink kimono and hikama outfit with cherry blossom designs.

[luminier]

I shouldve made Luminier a nice cool black Kimono.

new clothes or items are always welcome in my book. people really need more diversity because it seems the only real diversity there is is when you join a guild. then again this is the middle ages I suppose we should be realistic. but purely cosmetic new armour that has the same abilities as old armour for the guild would be very cool.

without revealing too much im thinking more of the sandals or geta the shaolin have to choose from.

[Zekiel]

What I miss, mostly, is a setting.

Is there anything in the real world the shaolin guild can be compared to? RL Shaolins (Chinese Kung Fu Monks) perhaps? From what I've seen, the shaolin ICly are inspired by martial arts in general, not one particular scene.

Limiting what they look like/act like would make defining further purposes of the guild a whole lot easier, I believe...

[Delia]

If you could, I would like to hear how you feel certain guilds, organizations, cities and people in general view the Shao-Lin? I should need to add that do not think of Delia when thinking of the Shaos, she is quite atypical as they come.

[luminier]

Well as it stands, it seems everyone wants to be best friends with Luminier except for a very few Asrals, and some Shao-Lin.

The Crusade sees the Shao-Lin as a whole as those who are indifferent to evil, because most of them (example, Kaseo) don't really seem to care about much but a balance(even that is a very general description and is not always true, but it is hard to roleplay not giving a damn at all about the baddies that raise undeads). But even then, it seems the Shao-Lin lean towards more of a lawful good than a lawful neutral. However, that could just be I tend to be around Delia alot more with Luminier than any other Shao-Lin, since Delia seems to actively care about the destruction of evil.

[caelia]

If you could, I would like to hear how you feel certain guilds, organizations, cities and people in general view the Shao-Lin? I should need to add that do not think of Delia when thinking of the Shaos, she is quite atypical as they come.

I've had the opinion that the Shao-Lin are unified by their fighting style, and perhaps their aversion to politics, but not necessarily much else. Within the various Clergies and the Crusade there are some assumptions and rules that make each member very much a "part of the group," but it seems that the Shao-Lin are somewhat more free to act (and be treated as) individuals. Maybe Delia is atypical, but so are the others.

Or at least this is how I see it, but I would say it is consistent to treat different monks differently, and there is probably room for different schools of thought, or different "camps" if you will, based on differing opinions of ideas such as "neutrality" and "balance", or on how to apply these very abstract ideas to actual events.

From Caelia's point of view specifically - she's religious to the core - she would have a much more favorable view of religiously-inclined monks, or monks with good karma (who are at least spending some time doing the things she values, even for a less-than-optimal reason from her perspective). She wouldn't have much patience for the ones that she deems aren't motivated to fight evil.

In D&D terms (I have my issues with those, but I think they help here) - I would say that Caelia would get along well with lawful good and neutral good monks, somewhat less so with lawful neutral monks (who at least obey the law), and she wouldn't have much patience at all for a true neutral monk (and less still if he or she were of the "actively balancing good and evil" type, because she would just abbreviate this as "evil").

From the city of Elvandar's perspective - I'm less sure. The average citizen has probably heard of monks, and probably would respect them, but I would doubt that the average citizen understands them, or has many dealings with them, so there is some air of mystery. There may have been a few bad apples over the years, but for the reasons I got into above, I think it's fair for people to assume assume that these were just bad apples, and not that there is some fundamental problem with the whole Shao-Lin. As judge, I've sought Delia's input on some laws, thinking that it's fair to expect her to be generally wise and thoughtful, and to have ideas worth hearing. (Delia, you haven't disappointed )

Just my opinions.

[Delia]

One thing I have always wondered with the Shao-Lin is that how very few if not any has tried to actually benefit from them via coercion. At one point I tried to inquire and form treaties about the land the temple is built on and the independence of the Shao-Lin in general but none seemed to bite the bait.
Should you read how RL monks were treated they were annexed into the kingdom and service sooner or later. Or just burned to ashes for being such miscreants who blatantly refuse to serve the rightful ruler and spreading weird teachings harmful for the rulers.

The key being, shaos are not that proactive if just left alone. Infact I cannot imagine a better setting for them than if everything is quiet and they are just left to their own devices. Granted it might not be that exciting from a players point of view but hey, they are what they are. Should you come and force a reaction you will surely manage to incite one. I really think people should think of them more as a resource to be used somehow given their neutral outlook and aloof attitude.

[lanyara]

actually benefit from them via coercion

Finally a hint to coerce Delia! I can already see a dragon landing at the shaolin place, demanding something crazy (a new home and shaolins scrubbing his back carefully)

As for non-dragons though ... I am not sure who would want to attempt to coerce shaolins for ... land? Conquer them?

They are cute and harmless.

And sleepy!

I really think people should think of them more as a resource to be used somehow given their neutral outlook and aloof attitude.

Usually crusaders and Taniel cleric scuttle around like busy ants scrutinizing for signs of evilness. So they are quite busy, normally, and would have to overcome the sleepiness of shaolins in addition to that. It seems quite easier to tap into i.e. the rangers, because these are usually jumping from tree to tree, and when they fall down eventually you just team up with them ant-like, and continue scrutinizing for more signs of evilness.

Then the shaolins get to be sleepy again because noone comes over and wakes them up from becoming too sleepy.

The problem with true neutral is that you will be automatically disconnected from quite many events. For the extreme opposite (good/evil) it is far easier to toss characters into a friend/ally/enemy schema, and have the rest be "neutral" or "not care" (and thus, more or less, ignore them, except when you want to sozialize).

I hope this does not come off as complaint - I am trying to say that the shaolin concept is quite difficult to "connect" to the other guilds.

Years ago it seemed somewhat easier (Iske and so forth) as there was more of a need for involvement, I am not sure that this is the same today.

[Loreen]

Another draw back is that true neutrals seem to have an averse effect on the karma of those that try to get or maintain a good karma.

I for one seem to have quite some problems keeping up my karma and group with neutrals. So I started being even more of a loner. Not that well for roleplay.

[krelji]

I can't say that my char ever had this problem. Actually his karma is better than I'd
like to have it.

[Delia]

As for Delia, she is only one character. Even in a gritty sword-in-your-guts-setting she still remains a single character. You'd be surprised to how many things she is "vulnerable" to in terms of coercion. Of course if she'd just be free to unleash hell to everyone she disagrees with and would not have to worry about the aftermath, it'd be completely different(and even then there are all the Luminiers and big scary tshaharks and all)

Shaos are not totally neutral even if the guild outlook is a neutral one. The guild is comprised of a hodgepodge of followers of different gods. There are Zhakrinites, Gwenites, Tanielites, Asrals and Evrenites quite equally. You can find pro-active Zhakrinites or passive "true-neutral" taniel followers. The approach differs for each player. How active the shaos are in the world mainly depends on the active leadership and the philosophy they try to teach. Of course the problem here is that the shaos sorely need a handful of active masters and that Delia has become more or less...set in her ways(add to that my lack of time...).

But yes the concept is a difficult one which in my mind requires some research on the players part; reading about RL monk and martial traditions, philosophies and such a bit. I see them as "warrior-scribes", people who educate themselves along with their martial prowess using the physical skills for self-defence and sometimes for the good of the community and their education for lending their council to those who want it. More or less as I have tried to play Delia. Actually, I think I read somewhere that martial arts(atleast some of them) in the eastern monastic tradition evolved from simple exercises to keep the lazy monks in a fit physical condition as just laying about in a temple chanting prayers, reading/writing and such just did not help to keep them up and going.

Hmm...I think I am getting side-tracked soon and so forth so I'll just end this all saying that I hope to see a couple of new masters soon and see what direction the temple will take then. Just do not be afraid to challenge Delia! She does not rule the temple, she is just one master among the rest

[Kaseo]

Just do not be afraid to challenge Delia! She does not rule the temple, she is just one master among the rest

What most people don't know is Kaseo actually rules the temple. >.>

[lanyara]

Just do not be afraid to challenge Delia!

After having witnessed a certain "trick" setting a meadow on fire ... I really think it needs be a dragon challenging her next. :>

[Desiderea]

Just do not be afraid to challenge Delia!

After having witnessed a certain "trick" setting a meadow on fire ... I really think it needs be a dragon challenging her next. :>

Ooh, I was wondering if there was a way to set things on fire... Not that the voices tell me to burn things or anything like that...

[lanyara]

There are probably a lot of more shaolin mysteries.

Well hidden ones!

[ganandorf]

So here's a suggestion.

To deter people from mooching shaolin skills, why not bar the advanced techniques from them, even the second level techniques, and leave them only with the basic skills. Sure it doesnt make roleplay sense, but look at all the people who join the shaolin only for the skills, There should be some drawback to leaving the shaolin or else no one is going to stop.

[Delia]

I once thought of somekind of punishment ritual where the ex-shao would be captured and then the ritual would be performed in the certain shao special place where, for example the flow of "chi"/"balance"/whatever would be disrupted so that the person affected by this penalty would suffer considerable penalties to all shao things for a good time.

While not as effective as cleanly cutting off access by code when you quit, it would atleast be more sensible, smoother and IC way of doing things. Of course it does not help if the ex-shaolin joins, let us say, the crusade and the shao masters do not have the nerve to anger them(which is true more often than not) should peaceful negotiations fail.