Sexism and sexual freedom

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Devi
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Sexism and sexual freedom

#1 Post by Devi » Fri May 30, 2008 7:30 pm

I was reading about a game world in which there is absolutely no sexism, racism, or stigmas against homosexuality. I know very well that Geas isn't such a game world, but it started me wondering.

How does each society view gender roles and sexuality on Forostar?

Humans have prostitutes, but elves have female guards and a queen. Are dwarves egalitarian? Is homosexuality universally frowned upon? To what extent? Is a matter of religon? I might imagine that tanielites believe in chastity and equality, but asralites believe women are inferior objects, good for lovin' but bad for fightin'.

This has come up in game a number of times, when certain characters have acted extremely against or in favour of homosexuality and other characters have acted extremely sexist or extremely egalitarian (presumably based on ooc feelings or guesses about the geas world).

It might be nice to have some cultural standard -- what the typical dwarf, elf, human, tshahark, gwenite, lilithian, etc. thinks. The same could be said for racism (humans hate tshaharks. dwarves hate elves. elves hate everyone. and so on)

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#2 Post by luminier » Sat May 31, 2008 12:10 am

Personally I think sexism and sexual freedom lie in geas like anything else, some people do it and some people don't regardless of race or anything. I distinctly remember Warg thinking women were inferior (to an extent) and well there sure are some arrogant elves in the game (although when they are on the ground looking up at you, they don't seem so tough).

But it is for sure something I would be interested in knowing. It would seem most humans would be either indifferent to women, or think them inferior. But the other races don't really seem to be the same.

Dwarves - they both have beards, enough said
Tshaharks - don't care
Elves - They live so long it's probably beyond their capacity

halflings and half-elves im no sure of however.
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#3 Post by tessa » Sat May 31, 2008 1:52 am

First off, it's useful to remember GEAS is supposed to be a medieval theme, and not a modern day one.

With that said, here are my personal views on the races, though this is more from personal opinion than any supported fact:

I think most humans would generally view women as inferior, as least in places like Naarved or Arborea ('sweet towns' like Bandama may not be as bad).

Dwarves and Asralites I think would judge on merit. A capable female would likely be as respected as any man, though in terms of Asralites, it may clash a bit with the humans' belief.

Elves would likely believe in equality, though I think they may slightly lean towards women for important roles, which may be influenced from having a long-standing queen.

Tshaharks and halfelves, often being the subject of prejudice themselves, would likely not be prejudiced.

Halflings would likely find gender a less important trait compared to other things (like who has bigger treasure).

Though there's nothing to necessarily support it, I like to think Gwen favours women over men (women usually tend to be more in touch with their emotions), and I view Lilith as a matriarch that considers all men inferior (women are naturally more demonic and chaotic, anyway).

Zhakrin, Evren, and Taniel don't strike me as the type to particularly care about gender, and I think Sathonys would care more whether or not someone was undead than whether they were male or female (and since undeads are arguably neuter/asexual, it may not matter afterwards, either).

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#4 Post by Devi » Sat May 31, 2008 2:46 am

tessa wrote:First off, it's useful to remember GEAS is supposed to be a medieval theme, and not a modern day one.
This doesn't necessarily help, since a lot of people have different assumptions about what "medieval theme" means, especially the "theme" part. That's part of the problem, and that's why I think there's such a huge gap between the different interpretations of different players, especially considering that there weren't dwarves or Gwenites during the middle ages. This is also complicated by DnD, whose tenet is equality between male and female characters.
Elves would likely believe in equality, though I think they may slightly lean towards women for important roles, which may be influenced from having a long-standing queen.
I always thought it was neat how the elves are the only race with female guards in the city (do dwarves have those?), not to mention the lone-ruling queen. Female elves should start throwing around insults like "You fight like a man."
Though there's nothing to necessarily support it, I like to think Gwen favours women over men (women usually tend to be more in touch with their emotions)
I assumed the same thing, but just thinking about it now, I doubt she would make any distinction at all. I imagine Gwen to be more or less blind to gender, given the "progressive" views on sex that she seems to have. Then again, it's hard to say how much of that is intended and how much of it is added by players.

I'm still curious to hear interpretations of cultural views homosexuality and prostitution. I always imagined that homosexuality would be viewed as bad to everyone (except maybe followers of Gwen or Zhakrin), simply based on the "medieval theme" thing (but who knows?). Elves are opposed to prostitution. Does this make them prudes or respectful of women? What about humans? I imagine this being a major source of tension between the two races.[/quote]

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#5 Post by tessa » Sat May 31, 2008 3:59 am

Devi wrote:This doesn't necessarily help, since a lot of people have different assumptions about what "medieval theme" means, especially the "theme" part. That's part of the problem, and that's why I think there's such a huge gap between the different interpretations of different players, especially considering that there weren't dwarves or Gwenites during the middle ages. This is also complicated by DnD, whose tenet is equality between male and female characters.
Well yes, 'medieval theme' can be quite broad, but what I mean is people should try to think of things from an in-game perspective more than "well, how do I feel as a player?".
I always thought it was neat how the elves are the only race with female guards in the city (do dwarves have those?), not to mention the lone-ruling queen. Female elves should start throwing around insults like "You fight like a man."
Dwarves don't have female guards I think, but Asador did last I remember.

I would actually be very interested in seeing elves be a matriarch society, mostly because it would be a refreshing change from the usual patriarch/equal societies I seem to see everywhere (but please no amazons, women don't have to be manly to be the leads of their societies).
would make any distinction at all. I imagine Gwen to be more or less blind to gender, given the "progressive" views on sex that she seems to have. Then again, it's hard to say how much of that is intended and how much of it is added by players.
From my talks with wizards on the subject of Gwen, I'm fairly confident that the belief that Gwen is a god of sex and getting drunk/stoned is mostly fabricated by players that misunderstand the purpose of the fruits and the term 'goddess of love', as there's many more sides to love than just passionate lust.

Anyway, the reason I felt Gwen may be biased is because I suspect her to be a little vain, at least more than the other gods (with the possible exception of Lilith), and thus she may be slightly more favourable towards females (being one herself, or at least favouring a female avatar over a male one) than males.
I'm still curious to hear interpretations of cultural views homosexuality and prostitution. I always imagined that homosexuality would be viewed as bad to everyone (except maybe followers of Gwen or Zhakrin), simply based on the "medieval theme" thing (but who knows?).
Actually, I thought prostitution was less taboo than it seems to be these days? I'm not really sure, something I'd have to research. I'll post my own thoughts on homosexuality and prostitution in the game once I gather my thoughts.

However, it does seem that Taniel considers homosexuality a sin, and probably shuns prostitution, too.
Elves are opposed to prostitution. Does this make them prudes or respectful of women? What about humans? I imagine this being a major source of tension between the two races.
Elves would probably consider prostitution "dirty" and "degrading", and they're usually a rather prideful race. Humans, on the other hand, seem to consider it more acceptable (Yanna is just one of the many suggested prosititutes at Arborea harbour, and I'm sure Naarved is even worse).

Prostitutes don't necessarily have to be females (I think..), though it would be interesting and a bit creative if one reason why elves may hate the thought of female prostitutes so much was that matriarch idea. ;)

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#6 Post by Grindel » Sat May 31, 2008 5:00 am

I think sexism is a topic where the roleplaying is suppressed by the personal thoughts. There was a player who instantly let the game when he found out that roleplaying sex is no taboo in geas. :wink:

Religious folks might reject the idea of roleplaying homosexuality, even if we can decide which race/group would be fit, etc. Oddly, sexuality often imposes a much greater "problem" than violence, or crime. (just watch TV.)

My take on the races:
Dwarfs - patriarchy, no oppression of women, sexuality free, but above all they are discreet...
Humans - patriarchy, oppression of women, prostitution, homosexuality presumably rejected
Elves - matriarchy, sexually free in non-vulgar way -- no prostitutes at harbours, but I would be surprised if the queen does not keep a lover or two and a mistress for her pleasure.
Tshaharks - well, they do lay eggs, so they must have sex. Something animal I guess, so no moral concerns. Do not understand the other race's concerns quite well.
Half-Elves - Let it depend on where they were brought up?
Halflings - Now I'm at a stand. Pray, some halfling player step up here!

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#7 Post by tessa » Sat May 31, 2008 5:18 am

Grindel wrote:Tshaharks - well, they do lay eggs, so they must have sex. Something animal I guess, so no moral concerns. Do not understand the other race's concerns quite well.
The tshaharks actually have a mating ritual, which older players may remember quite well:

For tshaharks, tails are objects of attraction. The larger the tail, the more attractive the tshahark is to others (tshaharks don't seem to have homosexuality, I suppose because of animalistic instincts or something *shrug*).

A "mating call" for tshaharks is when the female tugs the tail of a male tshahark of her liking, presumably whichever male she can find that has the largest tail. The male tshahark must then club her unconscious (this is a trial, a male that cannot knock the female out is not considered a 'worthy' mate). Upon doing so, the male tshahark then drags the unconscious female to the nearest cave... and the description of the ritual mercifully ends here.

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#8 Post by Devi » Sat May 31, 2008 12:43 pm

Upon doing so, the male tshahark then drags the unconscious female to the nearest cave... and the description of the ritual mercifully ends here.
Tshaharks like to take their mates clubbing to get 'em ready. ^.^

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