Aragog: How to ICly account for her disappearance?

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Naga
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Aragog: How to ICly account for her disappearance?

#1 Post by Naga » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:58 pm

I agree with the decision, by the way, but Aragog was a character that everyone talked about, and everyone in their right mind feared. She was a murderous menace, a veritable plague! But she simply vanished without a word? BORING! Use it to add color to the game.

Let's brainstorm some IC explanations for what happened to her, and maybe some wizard can take her character and make a lich out of it or something, etc.

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tessa
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#2 Post by tessa » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:25 pm

Don't count on her being a lich or anything of that sort. Even well-liked players rarely get glorified, and considering the reasons she was removed from the game, I don't think wizards would be interested in doing any glorifying here.

The easiest way would simply be to consider Aragog dead. Perhaps the Crusaders got her, perhaps Sathonys got pissed at her and sent her to hell. There's plenty of ways to come up with something along these lines.

Aragog isn't be the first 'memorable' character to disappear, and none of the other ones got anything other than simple stories like "he went into the mountains" or "he got outcasted" or "he went into hibernation" or "no one knows, perhaps he died or something".

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#3 Post by Naga » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:39 pm

Don't let religious politics of your character affect your OOC treatment of me, Tessa! If Tatiana said the same thing... :wink:

It's a shame when characters make a bang, they never go out loud, they all sort of dissipate like a fart that becomes weak then goes away, leaving not even a memory, rather than the good ones that stick in the chair, waiting for you to sit down again, and when you think about them, you can even smell them in your nose. (Sorry, in the library on an ugly cushioned fabric chair from the early 80s, surrounded by identical empty chairs.)

My point is, let characters die as they have lived. It's a shame that most players who just gradually stop playing don't give their characters the sort of ending that lives up to their lives. It just isn't right. Even Beowulf, the paragon of heroism in the Old English tradition, met his match and was defeated by a dragon, but what better end is there to a warrior than death in battle?

What is the sort of end that makes sense for Aragog? I don't like unanswered questions. Usually, they're the result of laziness or, in your case, the shrewishness of woman. :x

Even the most casual acquaintance with folklore or comparative religion shows that when there needs to be an explanation, people will never fail you. There's usually one, or, more likely, several. (So don't fail me! Lie to me, even!) Dreadmaster gone missing? Something's going to be said, or at least should be said. You wouldn't believe the sort of things I've heard come out of normal people's mouths... This is an exchange between a family member and myself:

2003-ish???
PONaga: So, what's taking us so long to find Saddam Hussein? He must have a fairly extensive network of loyal supporters to be evading detection for so long, even with that massive reward!

Family member (in all seriousness): Look at the size of those oil pipelines! You could drive a car through there. I bet he's, you know, traveling around in those pipelines from one place to another.

PONaga: :cry:

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#4 Post by tessa » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:02 pm

It's not OOC biasedness. I can't think of a single character that was ever immortalized with their own NPC, or had any coded glorified end.

If you want OOC biasedness, then I would say that I can think of a dozen or more characters more deserving of a glorified end than Aragog. And even those I wouldn't like to see, because I think every second mortal and his brother being glorified alongside the likes of Vlad Morrowstar or Magnus Woundreaver would quickly create a rather narcissistic-looking mud, which would be highly unappealing.

I think characters being remembered through their feats when they played is better than being remembered only by what became of them code-wise after they quit.
Last edited by tessa on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#5 Post by ganandorf » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:04 pm

I agree with Naga but im not very creative so dont count on me for anything
Meow

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#6 Post by Naga » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:18 pm

Notice that the lich was only a "maybe." I'm more interested in a story, a rumor, or lies. Don't read my post as a demand for an NPC, because it wasn't and cannot fairlyb be read as such. An important character, a guild leader, the human, social face, the earthly representative of one of the gods vanished suddenly. A scourge on the lands is no more. And then? That doesn't happen in fantasy, that doesn't even happen in real life. Rumors start, and a pseudo-history gets created. Heck, there are people who say at least one world religion got started that way...

You are acting too exacting! Your post-enlightenment standards are sapping the charming medieval naiveté! Once, in a dream, I strangled Erasmus in a movie theater for doing something similar when he ridiculed the Golden Legend.

Thucydides, in his History, does something that would make most moderns thinking to write history cringe. He gives the characters speeches, some he may have heard and imperfectly remembered, others not. He set out “to make the speakers say what, in my opinion, was called for by each situation.”

What does Aragog's situation call for?

I asked for brainstorming, not coding! If I wanted something coded, I'd beg Turian. If I wanted a good story I could read, I'd ask someone other than Turian (no offense, I love you so much, Turian.)! :P That's what this thread is about, but if Turian wants to participate, I welcome him like my own mother.

I'm talking about stories. Naga's made of plenty of stories about characters, even some living ones, saying and writing some things he experienced, other things he remembers hearing, and others that, despite the lack of evidence, seem appropriate to the character and circumstances as he understands them. Some of this is in an in-game book, but that's beside the point... I'm not singling out Aragog in any way. I just thought it would be cool to have a good discussion about cool rumors to spice up the rp of this event, the notable absence of the head of a faith / notorious murderer and outlaw, because most of us are too reticent to go and make claims we can't substantiate. It's not even important to me that we have a "standard story," I just want something. More than that is good, but let's say something.

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#7 Post by tessa » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:28 pm

In that case, it can be handled IC, not OOC. When Atrophius was deleted, I heard characters saying anything between him heroically fighting off Arborea-invading insects and dying after slaying them all single-handedly, to having betrayed the Rangers and gone to Asador, where he was promptly executed by his former comrades for being a treacherous bastard. And in that way, it's probably more realistic and interesting when everyone comes up with their own conclusions IC.

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#8 Post by Naga » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:32 pm

Oh, sure it's better IC, but some of you are lazy and need prodding!

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#9 Post by tessa » Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:44 pm

Trust me, stories start to fly around when people hear a story they don't agree with. There were disputes over Atrophius, and he wasn't even really a notable character.

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#10 Post by Devi » Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:04 am

It's always an option to send a message of some sort to Aragog, so that we can come up with a canonical end to the legend.

Personally, I like the idea of former-player npcs. I would've preferred Ezdreli to become a skald npc rather than just poofing. I know some muds where this immortalization is prevalent, simply because characters begin to transcend the importance of their players. They are needed for storylines, continuity, and so on, long after the player gets sick of them.

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#11 Post by tessa » Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:25 am

If I remember, it was Ezdreli who decided that her character was killed, rather than everyone assuming it.

EDIT: Removed something not necessary.
Last edited by tessa on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#12 Post by luminier » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:32 am

how about i write up some huge long story about how luminier followed her through all the lands hunting her and his experiences and how he changed though the experience and how he learned and grew in ways that was never thought possible. he learned the true differences of good and evil and had many trials and obsticales he needed to overcome before finalling besting her in the bowels of hell.

tessa can write it ig as lumi dictates. and that will be that.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

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#13 Post by tessa » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:47 am

No, I'm not interested in playing any part of it. After reading through my posts, I'll admit they got overly bitter. I misunderstood Naga's intents to tie up loose-ends as a desire to dedicate something special to the character, that was removed from the game for unflattering reasons no less, and it went downhill from there. So, just disregard it.

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#14 Post by eirikeld » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:02 am

Oddly, I am of two minds on this. It is a rare feeling for me.

On one hand, I have to agree with Naga to an extent. I would love the idea of my characters being immortalized somehow in canon, even if it is only by a journal entry in the scribe's guild or such.

On the other hand, I would be quite upset if the way it was done was to hand me over to my enemies, or to have it go in a manner not keeping with my RP or my experiences in life.

In particular note of this case, I would also add that this is the Sathonites we are speaking of. They often were not around for long periods of time before hand anyway. Few if any really knew what went on in Asador. I think in this case, slipping quietly into the night is amazingly fitting, as that was her ways while in the game.

If it were a famous, well known person of the "civilized" lands, then yes. I could and would love to see a statue in a park, or some other such tribute. Maybe include Aragog in a collection of children's stories in a bogeyman role. I don't know. After Eirikeld's one real time of being aragog'd, he'd certainly use her in such terms.

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#15 Post by adanath » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:02 am

How many times through the years have players stopped playing themselves?

How many times has a player logged off and not logged back on for a year or two?

Now from all those countless times that has actually happened how many of you decided to bring up some huge roleplay drama of what happened to the character.

This is no different icly than people who don't log in for a month or two years or that quit playing and you never hear from again. It shouldn't in my mind be handled any different. She is gone ic..big deal, eventually people will notice she is not around anymore, at that time rumours will begin to circulate or what have you. To try and come up with anything else is to me using ooc knowledge.

If you wish to come up with a story, then wait a few months until people ICly notice she isn't around then say whatever rumour you want.

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story

#16 Post by vurdijak » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:09 am

Since it is illegal to log in two characters at once, the final duel between Vurdijak and Elizoren will have to be done as a story, posted on the wiki and left OOC for a bit. Ideally, the story would eventually make its way IC as a book or a word of mouth tale (which always change over time).

The story will invariably mention some of the old rangers (who Vurdijak befriended) and several Sathos including Kaspars, Aragog, and Alamar (who Elizoren 'befriended').

Anything more or less than this will have to be done by someone else.

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#17 Post by chara » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:14 pm

Hmm, I actually think this is a good idea. And I have a thought... I'll see if I can pull it off in-game.

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#18 Post by anglachel » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:34 am

I had some time gao the idea to code a kind of tale-teller, who tells the epic stories if asked. Maybe for a coin or a drink.
But the problem is to get interessting and short stories.
An others idea is to implemt some heros songs that the skald can sing over other people.

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Re: Aragog: How to ICly account for her disappearance?

#19 Post by tessa » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:16 pm

Probably a story teller where people can put in their own stories would be the most fair situation. Preferably legend or lore stories or whatever, and not stories with the sole purpose to insult/degrade someone (perhaps in that hypothetical scenario, the stories could be monitored when necessary).

I would agree to that because it would give everyone an even chance, as opposed to special events or occasions for exclusive players only.

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Re: Aragog: How to ICly account for her disappearance?

#20 Post by eirikeld » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:47 pm

I would have to disagree. This would actually do nothing to solve the point of this thread in the first place. Secondly, I can see a few bad scenarios commonly coming from this, such as:
Some random idiot newbie approaches story teller, feeds in a completely bogus story that makes them sound invincible, and is horribly unbelievable ...or...
Some random character approaches story teller, and feeds in a story that slanders some other random character whom they do not like. ...so...
If such a story teller were in place, I would recommend they be fed stories by the wizards, as submitted by creative players. Further, I would recommend that IF it involved characters, as opposed to personages like Vlad, Magnus, etc. that the person be notable in one or more of the following ways: Above a certain very high experience level, head of a guild, past or present judge of a city, or some other way.
Instead, I would much rather someone like Poldark in the Cumberly pub, telling stories in a similar fashion. Maybe make them a wandering NPC in one or more cities, like Gerrit. Maybe have this person haunt one or more libraries. As it is, the Underground's library is stiller than a grave yard.

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