Starting information: documentation vs. discovery

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Devi
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Starting information: documentation vs. discovery

#1 Post by Devi » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:22 pm

One of my friends has started playing Geas, and we recently discussed the issue of learning through documentation vs. discovery. This is especially an issue for new players who don't have much experience with the world.

Documentation: information about the world is available online or in helpfiles. This allows you to make a character who fits into society, e.g. in regards to fashion, food, social class, racism, and so on. This can restrict a character.

Discovery: information is available in the game world. This allows you to discover the game world culture without any spoilers. This makes the world a little less consistent, especially with newer players who don't know a lot about the world, and it's hard to play a character who fits in well on the first try.

Geas currently favours discovery very heavily, but there are a few instances of documentation (such as the religion stuff on the webpage). My question: Which is better? Should there be more documentation?

Here is my personal answer: I think it'd be nice to have something on the wiki or on the webpage that outlines the very basics of society. A sort of "What your character probably knows if he's from Arborea" and "What the typical tshahark acts like."

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eirikeld
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Re: Starting information: documentation vs. discovery

#2 Post by eirikeld » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:37 pm

I would have to agree, from a different point of view. I have often asked questions concerning tshaharks so that I could play Surdz. Some times, my questions went unanswered, or were answered with "find that in the game". Now, I love discovery, but my lizard should know what he wants in a mate, IF he wants a mate, and such. I tried submitting a description for him that included a forked tongue [as seen in some lizards and snakes] and was told by a wizard they don't have forked tongues. So, now you all know at least that much. I didn't before.
I believe these sorts of basics ought to be known by any and all. It leaves the option of making a character who doesn't know about tshaharks up to the players, not making all of us guess about it.
I am of course, using this as just an example, similar to what Devi said about politics and societal norms.

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tessa
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Re: Starting information: documentation vs. discovery

#3 Post by tessa » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:04 pm

More documentation would be nice, and I like the "What you would know if you were from Arborea" approach to it. I would happily help with this, as I think I know a fair bit of GEAS lore (or at least, what older players taught me when I was young and curious).

If it can be organized and complete with thorough and helpful information, perhaps the wizards would even be willing to put it on the website, opposed to the wiki (which I think less drifters would come across than the site itself).

Though building from the wiki at first would probably be a good method of designing it.

Anyway, again, I'm all up for helping out with this.

Arogarn
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Re: Starting information: documentation vs. discovery

#4 Post by Arogarn » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:09 am

Yes, I'm new here, .. and I'm seriously missing documentation 'bout:

- several commands
- guilds
- god/clerics/etc.
- the world in general ( MAP !!! )

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Re: Starting information: documentation vs. discovery

#5 Post by Herst » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:19 am

I consider everything on the web page general common knowledge that a character living in Forostar would already know from school/chatting/gossip etc.....

Every thing else, I consider they must learn IC.

Am I wrong here?

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tessa
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Re: Starting information: documentation vs. discovery

#6 Post by tessa » Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:25 pm

Am I wrong here?
The main web page is incomplete, so I feel there's some leeway with some things. Particularly with what should be there, but isn't.
Arogarn wrote:Yes, I'm new here, .. and I'm seriously missing documentation 'bout:

- several commands
- guilds
- god/clerics/etc.
- the world in general ( MAP !!! )
If you don't mind making a specific list of commands, perhaps wizards could tend to that.

The guilds, gods, and world definitely need to be expanded on. A world map might be nice too, and I know there's a few out there (I would love to see Devi's there once it's finished).

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Re: Starting information: documentation vs. discovery

#7 Post by Zekiel » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:20 am

More documentation would be awesome.

I believe the reason for favouring Discovery over Documentation, is that you force people to discover things ICly, making it easier to 'keep it real' in your roleplays. It makes perfect sense that you aren't born in a world and somehow (OOCly) happen to memorize an entire encyclopedia's worth of information about it, so should you play a character from birth, you would have to find out everything related to the game's IC features ICly, on your own, without outside help. (IC features: pretty much everything, except for stats, skills, syntax, and other purely OOC stuff or OOC representations of IC stuff)

However, you don't play a character from day 1. I remember Zekiel being some 18 years old (could be more, could be less) at the time I write this. This means that, for a NEW character (such as my own), with a NEW player (such as myself), with NO previous experience in Geas whatsoever, all you have to go from is the limited documentation found on teh intarwebz. Looking at it from this point of view, it's not that realistic at all to figure out everything IC. The first 18 years of your IC life, though you weren't there to play them out, weren't wasted apathically, rotting your mind away, seeing, hearing, feeling and thinking nothing.

There's a certain amount of 'basic knowledge' everyone in the world would know about, and I think this basic knowledge and the information that's been
documented so far aren't at equal levels quite yet.

Judging from my experiences in the game so far, I would say I'm really happy this isn't the first MUD I play, 'cause I'd gone batshit insane having to figure out everything without knowing what to think of when looking for information. I firmly believe more documentation, on just about every aspect of general, every-day life in Geas, would do the game (and its new players in particular) a lot of good.

Can't remember what I was going to write next... Guess this'll have to do for my 2 cents.

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Re: Starting information: documentation vs. discovery

#8 Post by Grimforge » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:33 pm

I'm inclined to agree. I've had some exposure to LPMud before and while the differences in command structure have been irritating at times (what do you mean I have to say 'put gold bag' because 'put gold into bag' will error out..) its helped a lot more than its hindered.

Similarly with the world history - the newbie quests have helped me find my away around some areas and shown me a few mobs to kill to get money, but I can't say they've helped impart much information about the world itself. If my character concept is not in keeping with the MUD its not easy to tell given the very sketchy data avalable to the newcomer.

Some players have commented that they think hack'n'slash roleplay boring - perhaps the MUD would have less fighters if the introduction actually gave some more advice about other ways to earn money? Only the clerics and the fighter guilds have any background on the website at all, so unless you want to jump straight into religion as a newbie, what encouragement is there to try anything else? Reading around the forum has given the impression that (some of) the secondary guilds are rather empty and unrewarding.

I've learned from one post that being a Skald may allow you to earn money from performing, which is certainly a route I would consider if I wasn't a Dwarf. In the meantime having strolled round Elvandar, Arborea, Giat Deep, Cumberley, Bandama, the entrance to Ironhold and a fair amount of wilderness I've not yet stumbled across any hints to the location of the Ranger, Shaolin or Druid HQ..... or those of the Rogues or Children of Sathonys but I wasn't expecting to. In a state of relative ignorance, earning a few silver from scalping thildens seems to be the only practical thing to do until I learn more. Quite a lot of people can fall into that pattern then decide to continue on the warrior route since it was the only one they saw as available to begin with. We all come with some basic skill at swinging a weapon, but no such advice about how to learn magic (for example)

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Re: Starting information: documentation vs. discovery

#9 Post by triska » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:36 pm

If you type Help in game you will find a lot of topics where there help files.

If you dont know what your looking for you can use a key word and see what comes up and often if there is no help on that topic there is a suggestion pointing you to similar topics.

Help Guild for instance...
guilds - just information

DESCRIPTION
Guilds are institutions where characters can learn specific skills
or gain other advantages. There are four types of guilds: racial,
craft, layman and occupational. Currently there are no racial guilds.
Examples of craft guilds are tanners, parchment-makers, trappers and
gem-cutters. Examples of layman guilds are skalds (ministrels, actors,
entertainers), scribes and alchemists. Examples of occupational guilds
are religious orders (priests of the gods Taniel, Asral and Sathonys),
Crusaders, Rangers, Shaolin and Druids.
Now once you know that much information the rest is available to be found out in the game itself and interacting with others would also give you more information since if you asked most people would tell you .
Laughter is the best gift to give anyone and its free!

Grimforge
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Re: Starting information: documentation vs. discovery

#10 Post by Grimforge » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:55 pm

Yes, that much can be found by reading the guild names off the website.

Personally I don't like asking lots of questions of other players, particularly the more OOC stuff. Asking what the guilds do, how to find them, whether they're any fun etc. I think it would help if some more of that basic information was directly available to newbies - i.e. the stuff that an 18 year old human or 40 year old dwarf would already know from growing up in Giat/Arborea/Elvandar etc. Now if my character was an inquisitive, chatty halfling it would be less of a problem...

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