Evil noobs

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per
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Re: Evil noobs

#41 Post by per » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:26 pm

This is only my opinion, but I would prefer a portable sacrificial kit that gives less faith than regular means. It should not be spammable, so it should have small delays so you can get caught in the act and it would likely require a sacrifice of something that is not "farmable" and that if noticed would have IC repercussions. That way you can have uproar when someone steals babies and kidnaps children. I prefer that it be a kit so that there is SOME level of IC interaction with the baddies before someone goes off to be a secret sathonie. Maybe there could be an evil quest npc besides players that can give you one of the kits. That way there is a rationale behind how you learned how to ritually offer sacrifices to sathonys. The kit could be stuck in ruins and others places too, I imagine. And if found people could ask the right people discretly. In any case just some thoughts.

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Re: Evil noobs

#42 Post by lanyara » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:40 pm

I am not sure that the idea of (random?) characters without any "past life" starting to sacrifice some random NPCs for no sound IC explanation would be good to have.
I mean, for the Sathos there already may be an evil, playerdriven-clergy who could do that instead, and I am not sure if they like this competition.

But anyway, I don't want to discourage anyone. Perhaps the idea fits nicely IC - I don't know.

I do however heartily agree that it would be good to have more ways to please gods - in general.

And evil gods in particular, as this thread is about evil noobs.

There should be a certain amount of drawbacks associated with "pleasing an evil god".

I was about to list some possibilities, but then I thought which single one would be rather simple to implement, and might make sense. And I think that one aspect that Sathonys and Lilith could have in common is the disease aspect. (See 'help gods', listing Sathonys as god of death and destruction, and Lilith as goddess of chaos and darkness)

Both may have ample reasons to spread disease:
- Sathonys might want to weaken his prey as preparation for their impending death, or make them slowly suffer before they die.
- Lilith may just enjoy spreading chaos and confusion and a plagued town or disease-ridden battlefield may be excellent for just that.

So now, one idea which might be easy to implement could be to "snatch" diseases from NPC clerics (and perhaps one day later from evil PC clerics), and carry this disease over into "goodie areas". There, spread it to some NPCs, or PCs and so on and so forth.

This may please the evil deity in question, especially if the NPCs eventually die. And it would also force goodie characters to react - obviously, if the disease is discovered quickly, then the evil character should get less faith.

And there may be a risk for the evil character to die, even without any crusaders - might die to the disease. Anyway - note is getting too long, and it is just one more idea.
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isengoo
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Re: Evil noobs

#43 Post by isengoo » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:23 am

The main reason I suggest the sacrifice command is because such mechanisms already exist for Satho Clerics, so I'm guessing it would be easier to make a watered down version of that available to everyone.

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Re: Evil noobs

#44 Post by luminier » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:48 am

I would class the Asral Isengorn as a normal Asral Cleric. Not one that marries Gwennites or Evrenites or one that helps Crusaders or one that never fights anything other than an ogre or a troll or one that never starts any big war. But I digress.

The idea is cool. Per's idea is cool too. Hopefully we can come up with a name better than Sathonys Special Sacrifice Kit! Yours for only 5 small payments of 19 gold and 99 copper coins! (shipping and handling not included)
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Re: Evil noobs

#45 Post by isengoo » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:56 am

I mean, how hard can it be to sacrifice something that's shackled upside down on a cross? All you would need is a knife and some determination, really. The intent is pretty obvious.

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Re: Evil noobs

#46 Post by Minariel » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:05 pm

Actually, I see the point in it possibly being difficult. Who knows what sort of things would go in to a proper ritual. For all we know, to make Sathonys happy with your sacrifice you have to scrawl specific symbols on the body of the thing being sacrificed with its own blood in specific spots on the body... or you piss him off instead. Of course, I don't think that's how it actually works, but still.

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Re: Evil noobs

#47 Post by isengoo » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:13 pm

Well, it's already easy enough to get favor with all the other gods (even Lilith has a way to gain favor, although it would be tricky for a newbie). I'm just saying extend that general ease of access to include Sathonys too.

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Re: Evil noobs

#48 Post by luminier » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:26 am

Evren's is probably the easiest. Just have to slit your wrists!
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Re: Evil noobs

#49 Post by isengoo » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:57 am

Nah, Taniel's is easiest. Buy a hundred candles and devote them over and over and over and over. At least there's a delay built into Evren's system.

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Re: Evil noobs

#50 Post by lanyara » Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:49 am

Hmm is there really no delay? I was almost sure that there was one, at least from my limited experience trying to help another character gain favour here.
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Finlow
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Re: Evil noobs

#51 Post by Finlow » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:06 am

The candles cost quite a bunch if you are a newbie, so hoping for an active Taniel priest that preaches is much prefered.

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Re: Evil noobs

#52 Post by luminier » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:23 pm

The "delay" for the candles is that they drain exactly half your mentals. You can devote two, then you are vege and you have to rest for a looong time if you have a bad meditate.

Also they are quite expensive for newbies. They run about 8-9 silver a pop with bad trading if i recall.
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Re: Evil noobs

#53 Post by lanyara » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:41 pm

Oh, I see. Didn't know about the mana drain ....

Which now makes me feel like a noob, at least a bit. :(
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Re: Evil noobs

#54 Post by luminier » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:12 am

And thats why Evren is the easiest.

In case anyone didn't get the point of this thread, being an Evil Noob is very difficult, not recommended and it is best to have some experience before playing a evil character on Geas.
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Re: Evil noobs

#55 Post by ganandorf » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:41 am

No wonder its so hard to be evil.

So after people started discussing evil noobs, and how hard it is to become a successful cleric of sathos. Two "noobs" attempt to you know bring back the evil side. What happens? Exactly what you'd expect to happen, multiple deaths.

Less than 10 minutes ago one of these two "noobs" fought SIX good guys. You'd think these 6 seasoned players would maybe stun, arrest and use the punish feature. Nope, they just went for the kill. I can understand That sometimes in a fight it can be a bit hard to figure out whats going on, but from what i heard of the situation and how the fight took place, It seems like there was more than enough time to perhaps communicate with one another. And get everybody to go into stunmode.

I can recall when i went around "kidnapping" everybody. Sure it was a minor inconvenience for you, but how many times did i kill people who i easily could've killed. Not many. I arrested you, took you back to asador, had my way with you. etc. etc. I think even 3-4 of you that were involved in the raid today i had captured instead of killed.
Last edited by ganandorf on Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Evil noobs

#56 Post by luminier » Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:52 am

Ooph, thats pretty rough.

I've been hearing from poGanon (OOCly) that poKirill and poDragan have been doing some activities to let it known that the evil's aren't dead and maybe recruit some blood. Trust me guys I understand more than anyone how sometimes the game gets a little dry and a bunch of people are on and the "Oh lets go do something" wave of happiness hits. But I don't quite think it should be done like this.

Raiding a guild should be done after some careful consideration, -especially- when you know there is going to be little or no resistance. Try to roleplay it out a little at least.

As for the teaming thing, as a Crusader it's easy for me to blow people off b/c they don't follow Taniel or Evren and I am not saying that everyone should. But I am saying that if you choose to follow a God you shouldn't just willy nilly team with someone who follows Asral devoutly if you follow Evren. They two just don't "mix" or at least... shouldn't imo. At least it's not Gwennites and Asrals...

I can understand Ganon's frustration and if Kirill or Dragan were on the forum, I am sure they would express the same.
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Re: Evil noobs

#57 Post by ganandorf » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:15 am

Everyone makes mistakes, hopefully now that ive brought it up, itll make a difference.

edit: By the way the raiding party was pretty nice on the raiding part of the raid, Thanks for that atleast. I think itd just be alot easier for the bad guys to establish a foundation if instead of killing them everytime you see them you use alternative methods ;)
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Re: Evil noobs

#58 Post by matusalem » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:37 pm

Alright guys. Since you brought it up, I'm going rebuttal:

First, let me preface this by saying to both the player of Ganon and the player of Luminier, I love you guys. I've interacted with your characters IG and yourselves OOC several times, and in both situations you both enrich the game. I say all this so you know I'm not attacking you are trying to portray any sort of hard feelings. That being said, on with the other side of this situation.

I'm going use a number of old adages here. The first: "Mess with the bull, you get the horns." This was not some random group of bored individuals who up and decided to run out and storm the Sathonite fortress. The catalyst for this entire attack was based on repeated taunts and wild gooses chases sent to Matusalem through "mind call" miracles. Like any good old west sheriff, Matusalem rounded up a posse of the ready and able, and wandered all over forostar trying to figure out where Kirill was and up all the while being taunted with "mind calls" alluding to attacks in various communities such as Bandama and Cumberly. Upon meeting up with other individuals, it was decided to instead illustrate a point, the party would raid the Sathonite fortress. This is not the same as Ganon out wandering about looking for victims to interact with. Having seen Kirill killing nymphs in the mirror on Elor, and realizing he could do nothing, Matusalem was resigned that evening to shoot the breeze in Elvandar. It wasn't until he was picked out for taunts that a pvp situation was initiated. So this isn't a bunch of big bad old players looking for a "newbie" bad guy to put in his place.

Second adage: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Yes, Asrals and Evrenites aren't exactly pointing north on the same moral compass, and while the two Asrals in the party were clerics, the four Evrenites were all secular. (Two rangers, a shaolin, and a guildless individual.) This isn't the same thing as Druids or Crusaders teaming with Asralites. Furthermore, the prime target of the baiting, Matusalem, holds the sins of the Deathpriest worse than the sins of all others. Those who interact with him know as much. So while it may be poor form for a Crusader to team with an Asral, regular civilians aren't bound by the same oaths and are thus more flexible in their moral interpretations.

Kirill had been handled with kid gloves in the past, and very recently. We tried to make it obvious the point of the attack was merely a message. That's why your grounds weren't altered, your orb or books not stolen, or even Kirill's possessions stolen. We killed the priests and Matusalem left a snide note on the bulletin. And no, we stumbled onto Kirill not realizing he was there. We were leaving for Elvandar when we bump into him, so an organized arrest wasn't laid out. For that, I'll apologize.

Now I know the whole point of this string is to discuss the difficulties of being an evil newbie. I'll address this from merely my opinion. Being a newbie in Geas is difficult. Trying to kill a rabbit with a brand new character is frustrating to say the least. Being evil in the game is SUPPOSE to be difficult. People who run around in masks killing and/or torturing people in real life have a pretty hard time of things remaining free. It's a fact of the game. Currently, the power structure in the game is leaning towards the "Good" side of things. This hasn't always been the case. When Matusalem was young and first joined the Taniel Clergy, Alamar had just turned into a darkelf and the undead portal had been opened. I remember a team of six or so clerics and crusaders annihilated by Kaspar and Alamar. What's more, the forum was littered with people going on about how unfair this was and how the "Bad" side gets all the breaks et cetera. I think its funny to see it swing back in the other direction with the other side saying similar. (Don't get me wrong. You guys are commenting, those guys were flat out whining. A big difference, but you get my point.)

In conclusion, you can't go baiting a bear, then complain when he takes a chunk out of your face. No one said, "Oh look, Kirill's on the "Who" list, let's go find him and beat him up." A masked deathpriest repeatedly used mind call to taunt the charismatic and devilishly handsome Executioner of Elvandar. Like a good wild west sheriff, he formed his posse, couldn't find the culprit, so hit the outlaw's suspected hideout. This was all not only reasonable, but intuitive. Don't complain when your bluff's called.

Anyway, I repeat my previous point, I love you guys and your characters, and I don't mean this to be a "flame" or an insult. I merely wanted show you the other side of the coin.

Jackson

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Re: Evil noobs

#59 Post by luminier » Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:06 pm

Interesting justification.
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Re: Evil noobs

#60 Post by ganandorf » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:32 pm

Good point. That mindcall was poorly placed.

Thanks for leaving the guild in the condition you did.

The only thing i can see wrong now with what you guys did was kill kirill. You guys did have enough time to kill undeads, so maybe in the future one person (probably the party leader) could just say to stun or something like that. Would definitely make things more fair.
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