Vote for Our Mud on TMC!
 
 
Geas Home
 
Play the Game

learning skills

Are you a Newbie and need some help? Or are you a seasoned player and have tips for newbies? Post here!

Moderator: Wizards

marika
Beginner
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:01 pm

learning skills

Postby marika » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:29 am

Hi. Is there something to know about how skills are learned that isn't in the help files, but people know it anyway? I'm not asking for any exact numerical values, but mechanisms. It's really frustrating to be unable to make any substantial progress and to have no idea why.

I'll just ask some questions and hope people will consider it OK to answer.

1. If I do something that can possibly give a +1 to some skill, is there always a chance that will actually happen?

2. Do my stat settings have anything do to with that chance?

3. How do my stats affect that chance?

4. If I do something over and over again without any progress, does the chance of progress grow with each failed attempt?

5. After a successful attempt, does the chance get smaller?

6. Does the bonus from books and training depend on both the trainer and the trainee or just the trainer?

7. Does the amount of skill already learned by a character lower the chance of learning stuff?

8. What else is it important to know in order not to get crazy when your character refuses to learn anything useful and only, rather rarely, picks up bits of skills you're not focusing on?

Marika has been trying to learn to read since she entered the game for the first time. She's made almost no progress since. I admit she didn't try extremely hard, but it's not a lot of fun to sit in front of the computer entering the same commands for hours with no effect. When she's read through all the books in the Bandama library for the fourth time, I let her go, even if she's made no progress in the process. And it does discourage me from making more attempts. It's simply boring to do that. If I could at least understand what the books say... Well, I can't so I just have to mindlessly type the same things over and over until I'm bored enough to go somewhere else or Marika's made a progress.

And that's just one frustrating skill.

Zehren
Champion
Posts: 977
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:50 am

Re: learning skills

Postby Zehren » Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:19 am

marika wrote:Hi. Is there something to know about how skills are learned that isn't in the help files, but people know it anyway? I'm not asking for any exact numerical values, but mechanisms. It's really frustrating to be unable to make any substantial progress and to have no idea why.

I'll just ask some questions and hope people will consider it OK to answer.

1. If I do something that can possibly give a +1 to some skill, is there always a chance that will actually happen?

2. Do my stat settings have anything do to with that chance?

3. How do my stats affect that chance?

4. If I do something over and over again without any progress, does the chance of progress grow with each failed attempt?

5. After a successful attempt, does the chance get smaller?

6. Does the bonus from books and training depend on both the trainer and the trainee or just the trainer?

7. Does the amount of skill already learned by a character lower the chance of learning stuff?

8. What else is it important to know in order not to get crazy when your character refuses to learn anything useful and only, rather rarely, picks up bits of skills you're not focusing on?

Marika has been trying to learn to read since she entered the game for the first time. She's made almost no progress since. I admit she didn't try extremely hard, but it's not a lot of fun to sit in front of the computer entering the same commands for hours with no effect. When she's read through all the books in the Bandama library for the fourth time, I let her go, even if she's made no progress in the process. And it does discourage me from making more attempts. It's simply boring to do that. If I could at least understand what the books say... Well, I can't so I just have to mindlessly type the same things over and over until I'm bored enough to go somewhere else or Marika's made a progress.

And that's just one frustrating skill.


For reading, I have always found it works better to read in small amounts often than large amounts once in a while.
Drayn wrote:Zehren, the Karmassassin!

ghalt
Master
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:10 pm

Re: learning skills

Postby ghalt » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:34 am

marika wrote:Marika has been trying to learn to read since she entered the game for the first time. She's made almost no progress since. I admit she didn't try extremely hard, but it's not a lot of fun to sit in front of the computer entering the same commands for hours with no effect. When she's read through all the books in the Bandama library for the fourth time, I let her go, even if she's made no progress in the process. And it does discourage me from making more attempts. It's simply boring to do that. If I could at least understand what the books say... Well, I can't so I just have to mindlessly type the same things over and over until I'm bored enough to go somewhere else or Marika's made a progress.

To be clear, you are taking advantage of the npc skill trainer, right?
They're a little bit frustrating themselves, of course.

The specifics of the skill system seem to be purposefully a bit vague and indecipherable, but the general idea I've been told is to try to use a skill about once every five minutes or so. I... think it kind of wants to cap growth, so you're not rising a skill ten ranks in 30 seconds (or 30 minutes), but I can't swear by it.

I do agree, for what it's worth, that training reading at low levels is... a bit irritating, with the books full of gobbledygook. :)

fernao
Champion
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:44 am

Re: learning skills

Postby fernao » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:03 am

marika wrote:Hi. Is there something to know about how skills are learned that isn't in the help files, but people know it anyway? I'm not asking for any exact numerical values, but mechanisms. It's really frustrating to be unable to make any substantial progress and to have no idea why.

I'll just ask some questions and hope people will consider it OK to answer.



I'll answer to the best of my knowledge which is mostly just yearlong experience.

marika wrote:1. If I do something that can possibly give a +1 to some skill, is there always a chance that will actually happen?


Chance? yes. But the chance may be infinitesimally small. ;)

marika wrote:2. Do my stat settings have anything do to with that chance?


Yes. But probably not in the way you think. Stat settings only play a role in how quest and combat xp are distributed. And those make less than a third of your total XP. However, boosting certain stats, see also next point, can be a good idea.

marika wrote:3. How do my stats affect that chance?


To my knowledge and experience INT and WIS are the two stats that "define" the total amount of skills you can learn. So, if you boost those, your general chance to improve skills raises.

marika wrote:4. If I do something over and over again without any progress, does the chance of progress grow with each failed attempt?


No. Don't know but I am sure our smart wizards coded something to prevent people from spamming commands to boost their skills... Well, I would have.
Do it 4 or 5 times, if you don't get a success, do something else for 5 minutes, then try again. Just as Ghalt suggested.

marika wrote:5. After a successful attempt, does the chance get smaller?


Not necessarily. I personally found e.g. that if you retrain a delta skill, meaning a skill where your theoretical mastery is higher than your practical mastery, especially if its a skill that dropped from disuse, that those skills no only regain the lost/missing practical value, but often also improve rather quick.

marika wrote:6. Does the bonus from books and training depend on both the trainer and the trainee or just the trainer?


Depends on both. Learnbooks depend on the mastery of the skill by the author and the difficulty of the writing. With direkt training it depends on the teaching skill. But it also depends on the trainee, mainly wether or not he or she is able to learn stuff, see also point 3 in your list.

marika wrote:7. Does the amount of skill already learned by a character lower the chance of learning stuff?


Yes, if by "skill already learned" you mean the skillmastery. The higher the skill, the lower the chances to still improve. Know people, including myself, that often went a year or more without an improve in a skill regularily used. But then again, sometimes "the knot" dissolves, so to speak, and you get 2 or 3 improves in that 90+ skill even within a day.

marika wrote:8. What else is it important to know in order not to get crazy when your character refuses to learn anything useful and only, rather rarely, picks up bits of skills you're not focusing on?


Stop focusing. *grin*
If you don't make any progress in your combat skills, take a break. Head to the nearest market and have a chat for some time, juggle, play songs, write scrolls or do whatever your character does in out of combat situations. Crafts are a nice thing, also the tasks one can do as a scribe, alchemist or skald.

Pass some time doing those things, 10 to 30 minutes, and then pick up your fighting again.

marika wrote:Marika has been trying to learn to read since she entered the
game for the first time. She's made almost no progress since. I admit she didn't try extremely hard, but it's not a lot of fun to sit in front of the computer entering the same commands for hours with no effect. When she's read through all the books in the Bandama library for the fourth time, I let her go, even if she's made no progress in the process. And it does discourage me from making more attempts. It's simply boring to do that. If I could at least understand what the books say... Well, I can't so I just have to mindlessly type the same things over and over until I'm bored enough to go somewhere else or Marika's made a progress.

And that's just one frustrating skill.


As for reading, well, you usually move from a to b. Read the road sign, shop sign signposts and so on that you pass. Read then twice or thrice, that is usually more than enough for training. If you read books, read each page once or twice, maybe on a read through read each page of a book and start on the first page again. But then, put the book away.

Also.. I noticed that it seems that sometimes the skill improve in "lagging behind". So make a pause after you do the things you do before you repeat them. 5 to 10 secs is usually enough. Think of it as taking a step back, thinking on what you did, and then head back in again. Always helped me.


Well, thats my experiences with learning/improving skills. And one last tip, if you don't want to actively unlearn a skill, don't let your skills decay. Retrain those that drop from disuse.
Life is but a butterflies dream
Image

User avatar
anglachel
Site Admin
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:42 pm
Location: somethere
Contact:

Re: learning skills

Postby anglachel » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:00 am

The skills are normaly learn by doing. Everytime you use as skill, you will have a chance of improve. Often you use a skill without an own action. Awareness can improve if someone sneaks in the place your are.
It makes not difference if the use is succesfull or not, beside a few special skills.
There are skills that easy to learn (apraise skills) and other very hard to learn (martial arts skills).
To get the first point is mostly a bit hard. Some skills only improve then you have learned at least one point theorie before. Some skills (languages) need more as one point theoretical knowlege!
If your theoretical skill is under your practical skill is mostly easy to improve the practical skill.
If the skill rise, it will be harder to improve it nexttime. Excepton is the first point. This is harder as to improve from 1 to 2. To improve from 99 to 100 is the hardset one.
If you have already learned similar skills you will get a small boni for the improve check. If the stats that corrosponed to the skill are high you will get a boni, too.

marika
Beginner
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:01 pm

Re: learning skills

Postby marika » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:26 am

Thank you all. :)

User avatar
Eluriel
Master
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:40 pm

Re: learning skills

Postby Eluriel » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:05 am

Ugh, my poor Scribe trying to learn secret font and arcane runes... So much reading... and so little improvement. At least with combat skills, it seems like you're actually doing something. ;)

fernao
Champion
Posts: 608
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:44 am

Re: learning skills

Postby fernao » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:59 am

Eluriel wrote:Ugh, my poor Scribe trying to learn secret font and arcane runes... So much reading... and so little improvement. At least with combat skills, it seems like you're actually doing something. ;)

Tsk tsk tsk... Secret Font is supposed to be a secret. Last time my char mentioned it to a scribe IC that scribe nearly got a heart attack that one such as me would even know that thing existed!
Life is but a butterflies dream
Image

ferranifer
Hero
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:16 am
Location: Norway

Re: learning skills

Postby ferranifer » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:51 am

I don't have any proof about this, but I do feel like when my skill improves get kind of stuck, it helps to do some other activities and retake the training later on. It feels as if you get tired of studying the same thing, which makes sense if you ask me. So, just like in real life, sometimes it helps to clear your mind doing some busy work and then come back to it.

Also, as fernao mentioned, it seems like you tend to get some 'easy' skillups right after recovering from skill decay. It probably is because of this whole 'getting tired' effect.

In general, for skill training, my advice is to just play the character doing the things you like doing and stop worrying about the improves. With time, you WILL become good at what you do. As for stat priorities... well, if your char is witty and academic, pump int and wis. If it's a warrior kind of char, pump str, agi, con and dis. If it has nimble hands, pump dex. The rest will come with time.


Return to “Newbie Help”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest