Tshaharks

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Grimforge
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Re: Tshaharks

#21 Post by Grimforge » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:32 pm

The only criticism I have is that they start in an area that supposedly has newbie tasks to be done, but they're barred from doing them which makes it pointless them starting there. Fron what I've seen so far they'd be better off starting somewhere else and being warned that Arborea is prejudiced against their race so they won't be treated particularly well there. Its not the right town for them to start in.

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luminier
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Re: Tshaharks

#22 Post by luminier » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:01 pm

I think this has been brought up before. Due to the dwarves recruiting them to help kill dragons, I suggest they spawn in the Giat. I know this has also been mentioned before.
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tessa
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Re: Tshaharks

#23 Post by tessa » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:49 pm

luminier wrote:I wouldn't say that they shouldn't be used by newbies. Alot of people like playing the fighter from what I have seen, and with some patience they can be the best fighter on the MUD.

The only thing that should be revealed or given a warning to when choosing a tshahark is that they are a "dumb" race and should be played like that, unless they have an IC reason to be smart.
Dwarves and humans can make fine fighters too, without being barred from 80% of the game's guilds or 75% of career paths by code. While some newbies might like being fighters, I'm sure there's some that like the freedom to choose where they best fit in when they first come to the mud, rather than be stuck being an exclusive fighter and have to make a new char if they want to try anything else.

I'd also feel careful in saying 'a tshahark should have an IC reason for being smart'. They're not stupid because they're uneducated, but because they're supposed to be incapable of being intelligent.

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luminier
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Re: Tshaharks

#24 Post by luminier » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:45 pm

Well that makes a bit more sense Tessa I think. I guess people should be warned that if they choose a tshahark much of the game will be "barred" from them due to their learning capabilities and roleplay issues.

And that second part is also true. It's just most tshahark's I know (or Luminier knows) are very old and know alot just because they have seen it all. I realize it's hard to play dumb when you really want that Sathos character who has been killing you though =P. But they can't be completely incapable of intelligent action because they they certainly would not be able to fight as well as most do.
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tessa
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Re: Tshaharks

#25 Post by tessa » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:09 pm

I've always (or at least tried to) owed it up to instinct and wisdom (animals, like people, can learn from trial and error). Many animals are excellent at hunting or evading being hunted, but they lack logical comprehension that we have outside of those instincts.

EDIT: Of course I don't think it's ever actually been clarified how stupid or animalistic tshaharks were meant to be by their designers, so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.

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Re: Tshaharks

#26 Post by Delmon » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:20 pm

much of the game will be "barred" from them due to their learning capabilities and roleplay issues.
I have to disagree, especially on the "roleplay issues."
To me, being a tshahark means no alchemy, language learning, writing, singing many songs, or becoming effective clerics. Other than that, there's a place for the fighting beasts everywhere. No, you can't be a slick talking, wordy man of evil or good. No you cant play a poison tongued Lilithian (but noone does anyways), and you cant play a nimble thief (neither can dwarves). However, you can be a crussie, a ranger, shaolin, an evil sathonys creature, and maby even join the Order (they all want you). You can be the thug evil creature of few words, the pscotic lizard of terror, or a steadfast lizardman of good. It's slow to start in the beginning, and tshaharks lack mana (mindpower), so it's not "better" (even while fighting) to be a tshahark.

Few tshaharks play "stupid," (though I've seen some) and many seem to play intelligent under a fascade of simple words and quick emotions. Players of tshaharks can spout philosophy in simpler terms as much as they want, and they can add funny stupidity and get away with it. You can be tactically mindful and as knowing as you, the player, can be. There's nothing wrong with this bc I would play this way too, and I am grateful to all the tshahark players, but really, few tshaharks play "dumb."
It's just most tshahark's I know (or Luminier knows) are very old and know alot just because they have seen it all
As far as I know, tshaharks are suppose to have bad memories. I want to see a tshahark attempt to swim in a river and "forget" he can't swim, and then I'll believe it is hard to roleplay a tshahark.

edit: maby its more applicable to say that tshaharks open up a whole new game rather than bar a player from it. This game includes interesting(?) speech, a specialization in combat, another limb, ect.

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tessa
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Re: Tshaharks

#27 Post by tessa » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:55 am

Delmon wrote:However, you can be a crussie, a ranger, shaolin, an evil sathonys creature, and maby even join the Order (they all want you).
I think tshaharks are still barred from Rangers. Skald was a special exception. I was told they were barred from Clergies too, but either that was changed, incorrect, or a few exceptions were made there, too. As for the Order, I think it'd be unfair to try to encourage a newbie down that path.
I have to disagree, especially on the "roleplay issues."
You might say you disagree, but you elaborated on my exact reasons for saying there's a limit from roleplay issues: They can play a fighter from any color of the rainbow, sure, but they can't take up the role of scholar, mage, alchemist, trader, thief, etc. Not everyone in the mud wants to be a "XXX Warrior".

And yes, pc tshaharks tend to be smart. Looking past the skin-deep display of stupidity through broken english and general foolery, one may notice tshaharks usually have a keener sense of awareness, dry humour, intuition, and general intelligence than others. I don't think the "enlightened jester" was the way wizards intended tshaharks to be, but rather how the players ended up fleshing out their characters.
edit: maby its more applicable to say that tshaharks open up a whole new game rather than bar a player from it.
They're the most unique race in my opinion, and that can make them special and interesting. But that doesn't change the fact they're still unable to join several guilds or take up several occupations, as already mentioned, and I don't think a tail or caveman-talk can make up for the loss of 50-75% of occupational/layman guilds or most all non-fighting occupations if you're coming to the mud wanting to try a little of everything to see what you enjoy most.

If you want to be a warrior of some kind or another, great- play a tshahark. But if you're wanting to take up an occupation or career other than fighting, you have better chances to play a different race. I think that (and perhaps the handicaps in Arborea) are worth letting a new player know about before they come into the mud. Tshaharks might be "more special", but they're certainly less "user-friendly" compared to other races for new players that aren't familiar with the mud, Arborea's racism, or are hoping to try out magic or sticky fingers or whatever else that doesn't involve swinging a large sword at people.

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luminier
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Re: Tshaharks

#28 Post by luminier » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:44 pm

Well it seems Tessa did a better job of rebutting Delmon than I could have so Ill put forth Tessa's answer as a response to Delmons criticisms.

Although it seems reasonable to accept that tshaharks are animal-like and human-like and would have instincts like an animal and strength like an animal but have limited learning ability also. That limited ability would seperate them from animals and make them the tshaharks they are. This means that tshaharks could have a reason for fighting really well, it simply is instinct and the fact that they have done it many times. Of course even humans have instinct but we can just fight it back with all our knowledge and control.
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Delia
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Re: Tshaharks

#29 Post by Delia » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:26 am

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=769&hilit=tshahark
viewtopic.php?t=716

Just some tshahark related stuff. If you have read it already, do not mind.

I personally think tshaharks can be somewhat intelligent as they do have the capacity to learn. Sure they are severely handicapped in their mental processes and start out more like big children with bad tempers and ravenous appetites. Still, given a massive effort, they can learn how to read and write for example. It'd be fun to see more of the animal way of viewing the world, atleast one tshahark player played his lizzie that way in the past, which was quite fun.
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Skragna
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Re: Tshaharks

#30 Post by Skragna » Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:56 pm

I started out my first character as the only race I didn't immediately recognize, just to see what it'd be like. I have to say, I actually love being a tshahark, and even if I have to play the big dumb warrior stereotype, I'll play it as originally as I can. I, in fact, try to make myself sound like I've not yet "caught up to the times" by using archaic speech phrases and the like. Kinda like my lizard brain isn't able to get his head around the current times and just kind flows with things instead of asking a lot of questions he doesn't want to know the answer to. And myself, after reading more about them, picture the awakening tshahark like the Grackle Tooth race from RIFTS, if anyone plays that. :P

lanyara
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Re: Tshaharks

#31 Post by lanyara » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:38 pm

I think another problem may be that there aren't that many active tshaharks. It would definitely be more fun if tshaharks could interact more with _other_ tshaharks.
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