asador reputation

[ganandorf]

So how exactly does the asador reputation system work. From what ive seen it follows exactly that of the other cities, no backstabbing no skinning butchering on asador land.
I would assume that those thigns woudl be legal in asador, and then not effect my reputation.
What else effects reputation in asador, how would one get a bad reputation there?

[luminier]

i would assume there are alot more lax on the matter. plus the fact that anyone who is let in has special permission... so if the person is there they are there for a reason, and it doesn't rly matter waht they do as long as they are killing other asadorians probably.

[tessa]

Don't hang out with Gen. He is up to no good, no good at all!

[sun]

So how exactly does the asador reputation system work. From what ive seen it follows exactly that of the other cities, no backstabbing no skinning butchering on asador land.
I would assume that those thigns woudl be legal in asador, and then not effect my reputation.
What else effects reputation in asador, how would one get a bad reputation there?

I wouldn't assume those things to be legal in Asador. It's still a society of people and such tend to shun people that may hurt them. Backstabbing for example, is just as harmful to them as to Elvandarians. Just because they are following Sathonys doesn't mean they accept chaotic maniacs, they still have their daily life to deal with, like ordinary people. The worship of Sathonys is the normal for humans who didn't live in Arborea during the conversion to Asral, but that doesn't mean they have no law or standards. They still live as a society, raise new children, and so on.

[tessa]

I have no idea how Asador reputation works, but I again stress that there's a big difference between being evil and being psychotic.

To clarify this:

From what I've seen, Asadorians live a harsher lifestyle than others, but they still follow accepted rules of conduct. Most pretty much live out a normal lifestyle, or as normal a lifestyle as one can be in the frigid north. They're all quite mentally stable, but consider Sathonys the rightful heir of the world, the only true god, or what have you.

Running around backstabbing things, ripping the flesh from their carcasses, and then cutting out the meat and consuming it is considered rather psychotic and socially unacceptable traits. While Asadorians may be more tolerant of such behaviour, that doesn't mean they don't think you're a complete nutcase for it.

[ganandorf]

Makes sense.
I just assumed that asador would have know laws and be accepting of everything my bad

[luminier]

im gonna agree completely with tessa. what she said makes good sense.

[Naga]

I have no idea how Asador reputation works, but I again stress that there's a big difference between being evil and being psychotic.

To clarify this:

From what I've seen, Asadorians live a harsher lifestyle than others, but they still follow accepted rules of conduct. Most pretty much live out a normal lifestyle, or as normal a lifestyle as one can be in the frigid north. They're all quite mentally stable, but consider Sathonys the rightful heir of the world, the only true god, or what have you.

Running around backstabbing things, ripping the flesh from their carcasses, and then cutting out the meat and consuming it is considered rather psychotic and socially unacceptable traits. While Asadorians may be more tolerant of such behaviour, that doesn't mean they don't think you're a complete nutcase for it.

There have been societies that have practiced cannibalism of enemies. Brutal cannibalism, too. I don't think your "norms" are quite as universal as you would imagine, especially not in a fantasy setting. Human sacrifice, even infant sacrifice, is well-known and attested archaeologically. Even in our own era, what passes for "psychotic" in some places is common practice in others. Take the Spanish goat-throwers and matadors, honor-killing Turks, and the practice in some places of sexualized childrearing practices that can make us wince:

"Truk adults play with an infant's genitals...In China, Manchu mothers tickle the genitals of their little daughters and suck the penis of a small son...in Thailand, a Banoi mother habitually strokes her son's genitals."

http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/eln07_evolution.html

Though Asador would seem familiar in many respects as a functioning society, I wouldn't say that it functions normally in any real sense. It must be stranger and darker than anything conventional, and this strangeness and darkness is woven inextricably into the fabric of its society.

[tessa]

You don't become a flesh-dependent ghoul that attacks people on sight when getting hunger pangs in RL, either.

[Naga]

So you're using the posturing-against-RL argument to argue for making Asador more benign and mundane? What?

[sun]

There have been societies that have practiced cannibalism of enemies. Brutal cannibalism, too. I don't think your "norms" are quite as universal as you would imagine, especially not in a fantasy setting. Human sacrifice, even infant sacrifice, is well-known and attested archaeologically. Even in our own era, what passes for "psychotic" in some places is common practice in others. Take the Spanish goat-throwers and matadors, honor-killing Turks, and the practice in some places of sexualized childrearing practices that can make us wince

Against your enemies, yes. Cannibalism in Elvandar won't lower your reputation in Asador. If you on the other hand run about and backstab people in your home domains, of course people will get worried and think you are dangerous. Asador isn't some chaotic lilithian city where mad people run about.

If you want a high status amongst orcs, hyenas and flinds.. sure. Dig in.

[sun]

Though Asador would seem familiar in many respects as a functioning society, I wouldn't say that it functions normally in any real sense. It must be stranger and darker than anything conventional, and this strangeness and darkness is woven inextricably into the fabric of its society.

I wouldn't say it's wrong in Asadrim views to sacrifice someone. However, it gotta be "correct". It's probably something that only the priests have authority to do. When it comes to "dark and strange", I think that it's not. The common Asadrim would probably just think that it would be silly to even try to worship a different god than their own creator. God of death sure, but why fight faith? It's their own creator. It's not like there's a choice.

And also, ordinary people who try to survive and the will for survival and order of every-day life is mostly stronger than your acceptance for some maniac running around with a dagger stabbing people. Naturally it does matter who you stab, but the "low moral" of doing it to someone also proves something about the person who does it which might lead to lowered reputation.

[isengoo]

When I imagine Asador, what comes to mind is a place where you can do whatever so long as someone bigger than you isn't there to kill you for it. Brutality keeping brutality in check, as it were. Of course, the guards there are pretty much the most brutal (borrowing from Metalocalypse) guys imaginable, so there exists a functioning society. In regards to backstabbing, cannibalism, etc., I don't see why that stuff is "frowned upon" seeing as it's a city of the damned, basically. Maybe not within the city walls, with exception to maybe the Sathonys Priests (and even then they wouldn't be allowed to target guards/shopkeeps/whatever), but within the "city limits" or the tundra in general I'd imagine it should be anything goes.

[amrat]

I agree with Naga, Geas is a fantasy world. At least to me the point of fantasy worlds and fantasy in general is to "study" and experience the extremes that do not and could not really exist in the real world. You have (several versions of) good and evil, imaginary authorities to define them and thus can have people doing things that wouldn't be justifiable without the existence of these external value systems (I don't mean to offend anyone religious in RL with this). To me the idea is to try to push the limits in a way that still makes sense in the given world in order to create more interesting scenarios and events than the real world has to offer.

Sure, we can have wars because someone's cow took a dump on the wrong side of the fence like they used to some hundred years ago. Greed and jealousy have and will always be "good" motivators for conflicts. But why would we want to settle for that when you have the possibility to come up with things that are much more interesting? And as Naga mentioned the real world has already had and even has now societies with values we would have hard time accepting (and even "we" disagree on quite a few things. The gun discussion was creepy).

This doesn't mean that the society doesn't need to make sense. Just the opposite is true in fact and I very much enjoy worlds where surprising things have been properly justified within the setting. A society where everyone backstabs everyone can't exist.

..which leads us to the old problem in Geas that nothing is defined. I have been told repeatedly by wizzes that this is intentional and that players need to define things themselves (within reason). While a nice idea I don't think it really works, only creating confusion and leading to a poor, contradictory world. In this particular case one would need to define the Sathonys faith first for any of this to make any sense.

I personally picture Asador and the faith inside the city to be kind of a "reversed christianity", "Follow the commandments and the teachings of God, stay away from earthly pleasures and when you die you will go to heaven instead of hell" whereas the Sathonys faith would be "Follow the rules of Sathonys and please Him so when you die (and you will eventually and that's His domain) you will suffer less if you obeyed." This is kinda of a "redemption through suffering" scheme with some Norse "doom-belief" mixed in. Whether those who really enjoy fulfilling the teachings are respected or just feared would depend on the person.

Of course this is just one interpretation which probably has nothing to do with the actual implementation.

@Amrat

[ganandorf]

Now what tessa says makes sense.
But what isengorn says seems more realistic to me

"..which leads us to the old problem in Geas that nothing is defined. I have been told repeatedly by wizzes that this is intentional and that players need to define things themselves (within reason). While a nice idea I don't think it really works, only creating confusion and leading to a poor, contradictory world"

Something i was hoping someone would say.
I've noticed in alot of things Players are expected to use "common sense"
But sometimes common sense doesnt always dictate something, and common sense for one person may not be common sense for a nother.
Eg. How the reputation in asador works, someone can say whatever they want they can think it works like this, but there is no way to know, as from what i recall there are no rules in the city.

[Herst]

I see Asador as a city of humans mostly that stick to "the old ways"
The ways of human sacrifice and honoring their creator as the only god they see fit to worship. They do not care as much about certain things as other cultures, but when they someone absolutely psychotic and unpredictable, they start to worry about them.

They accept most things that other societies wouldn't accept, but they don't look upon it favorably. It is accepted and allowed, but that does not mean they hold you in high regards for doing so.

That is how I see it, and from what I have noticed in the city.....how the citizens see it as well.

[luminier]

i think what naga was trying to say was that there are societies that have cannibalism are aren't psychotic or crazy. of course i agree with this theres lots of crazy things(at least to us) that have existed and still exist today. but i don't think asador is one of those towns. sure the people like to be evil and support the ways of evil, but they don't want people going "crazy" and eating other corpses randomly. it may be accepted in socieities IRL, but IG i don't think cannibalism is ever looked upon as a normal practice to anyone but lillithians. Amazingly, Sathonys has some standards I think, he doesn't have a problem with cannibalism as long as you don't let it consume you.

at least that how i think of it.

[ganandorf]

Well here's an example the dreadmaster (judge, jury, and executioner) of asador Is a Satho cleric. Almost all satho clerics i know cannibalize.

[Herst]

Sure, because it has its benefits.
The common follower may not know them though, as I am
sure you are aware of.

Not to mention, this city of humans may just stick to their old ways and traditions. Following Sathonys for no other reason than he is their creator.
This does not mean they do not fear his ways, they are just looking forward to less suffering when they die, for the act of following him.

Just an example.

[tessa]

First off, Asador isn't a completely lawless place. Assault people in town, the guards will get you. Attempt to pickpocket or shoplift and get caught, you'll pay the price. Disobey the authorities of the city, and you get thrown out. While they may not have morals like southern cities, they certainly have a code of conduct.

Second of all, point out to me a cannibal in Asador that isn't a PC. I bet you can't find one. Just because the PC Sathos are cannibals doesn't mean every last NPC shares an identical mindset. There are some that are people who were just born and raised in Asador, and don't know (or don't want) another way of life, or they just simply try to get by. IE; the beggar at the marketplace.

And just because something isn't against "laws", doesn't mean it's liked. Yes, there's no rule in Asador that says you're not allowed to smear feces all over your body, but do you think that means the people of the city would be appreciative of such a habit? I doubt it. Just because people of Asador work together, doesn't mean they actually have to *like* each other.

Lastly, while Satho Priests are known to be cannibalistic ghouls, I have yet to see a cannibalistic Order member (and yes, I've seen several members since cannibalism was implemented). And they represent Asador just as much as the Satho Priests.

I've always viewed Asador as a lawful evil sort of city, especially since it has shops, businesses, trade, martial law, and so forth. This doesn't make them a good or moralistic place, it just means, despite being evil, cynical, and apathetic towards other people's lives or well-being, they still have some degree of discipline and order.

If you want to see a chaotic city, then go to Ironhold. This is your free-for-all city, where your freedom is limited only by your wits and strength.