perceptions of Americans

[vurdijak]

Do Europeans 'hate' Americans in a general sense, or even on an individual level? On U.S. newscasts and in the political campaign, we here that our image has been tarnished abroad. Is this just bogus reporting? I doubt it. So what does it mean to those of you outside the U.S.? For the other Americans, whats your take on it?

I dont get a lot of other perspectives, than whats on the news (U.S. stations or BBC), so I am curious.

[tessa]

I heard from a few that it's not Americans as a whole that others hate, just our president.

[Olrane]

I doubt that any non-Americans who play here hate Americans. Most people here seem at least somewhat educated and the Americans who play are often stupid, sometimes insane, but not any more than anyone else and definitely not worthy of hate.

We Americans mostly hate King Bush as well. Unfortunately, you always have half of the population that is even dumber than the average.

[Abharsair]

As a European who spends every year a couple of weeks in America, I have to say that I know no one here who hates Americans, nor was my American wife ever insulted or treated badly for her nationality. There is a somewhat widespread contempt for your current administration, but people are usually capable of differentiating between politics and the general population.

What bothers me most when I cross the pond is the US media. I don't think sensational, hyped and biased news are good for a nation, nor do I think that most of what your networks call news even deserves that name. An anchor stating openly an opinion is pretty much unthinkable in my corner of the world, and I appreciate that.

[luminier]

well im a canadian. most americans ive met are pretty nice and actually alot like canadians. and i just don't like the higher ups of american politics. and i find it frustrating that you can't vote him out. hope fully things go a bit better.

global media tells me generally how stupid americans are but i find that it is the opposite generally. then against ive only been to minnesota and pheonix.

[Andreati]

As an American, I'm quite glad to see that I'm/we're not hated by people of various countries and cultures. As was said, it's mostly the president that gets the hate-beam thrown at him. That being said, there are certain things I personally don't like about far too many Americans.

-There are lots of Americans who think that the US is the absolute best, should have lots and lots of power, and can never be wrong or defeated in anything. To this, I say, congratulations--you have nationalism, but you're completely blinded by it. For example, I was in a discussion with someone about the Japanese in WWII earlier today, talking about what would happen if Japan had done things differently. The person I'm talking to said 'Well, if the Japanese came invading Mexico, and then tried to invade us, we'd have kicked their asses and knocked them all back to Japan. Because this is America, and we're just awesome like that'. Unfortunately, he wasn't joking in the slightest bit. And -that- is what pisses me off about too many Americans; far too many of our egos are overly inflated.

-Again, too many Americans are completely oblivious to the rest of the world--which ties in with the overinflated ego, making it worse.


All that text being typed, could probably/almost certainly be said about any country in the world, to some extent; I just happen to think that it's particularly bad here in the US of A.

[vurdijak]

Thanks for the answers. I definitely did not make this post because I felt any animosity. I know most Geasians are more sophisticated than to blindly hate I'm just never out of the country, so I wanted to get some real perspectives.

[tessa]

I'm going to have to jump on the "Americans that think other Americans are annoying" bandwagon at times. One thing I hate that I see all the time lately is:

1. The person is always right. Even when proven wrong, he's still right.
2. The truth is only accepted if it supplements said person's opinion. Otherwise, it gets distorted or rationalized until it no longer actually represents what it should, but rather what the person wants it to represent.
3. Said person is always best. Even if he gets bested or proven wrong, that other person just sucks or cheated, and the original person is still the top dog.

All of which ultimately tie in to Andy's statement that several Americans seem to have overinflated egos. Or very very very bad insecurity. One of the two. And I'm sure the rest of the world has it bad too, but in my experiences talking to Americans versus non-Americans, I find it more prominent in the former than the latter.

[Naga]

The current administration aside, American nationalism has been relatively benign and actually quite successful at creating a common identity for Americans of disparate ethnic origins and faiths. It's not fair to compare American nationalism with the ethnonationalism that took as an identity a single ethnic group and the "nation" and made homogeneity a priority. At no time were European nations more ethnically homogeneous than after the two world wars flamed by ethnonationalist sentiment; the various multi-national empires collapsed and populations that did not fit into the ethnic norm within the new boundaries were largely dislocated or purged.

America, being a nation of immigrants from its inception and diverse in terms of religion (mostly various strains of Protestantism, though Catholicism came into force in the 19th century and a notable Jewish minority was established by the 1920s) and ethnic background (at first, mostly British but soon came Germans and other western Europeans), could not demand the same kind of sameness sought elsewhere, and instead had to demand social conformity (acting, talking "American") and reverence for the institutions of government and the national myth. America is still caught up in the immigrant's dream, that the new land is the one of promise and plenty.

This, of course, is all helped by the strong bifurcation of America along the color line (white vs. black) that makes differences between white people less salient.

As an American, I don't rabidly hate the Bush administration, though I find great fault with the current foreign policy. Bush has greatly increased the power of the executive in the United States and has mostly been loyal to Christian values on domestic issues, but he hasn't accomplished much in terms of realizing his ideals.

It alarms me that my countrymen seem too cynical, too wise, to show sweet sentiment for their native soil and its sons and daughters. We are here together by accident of birth, yes, but that is no more mere than the accident of birth into family! A nation exists for the sake of its citizens, and its fate rests on their shoulders. When right, it is your duty to preserve it, and when wrong, it is your duty to set it right. And every action, every thought, reverberates through its great body. Ill-sentiment and snarky discontent are no less than social diseases that, if unchecked, will bring a nation to atrophy and death.

[Naga]

What bothers me most when I cross the pond is the US media. I don't think sensational, hyped and biased news are good for a nation, nor do I think that most of what your networks call news even deserves that name. An anchor stating openly an opinion is pretty much unthinkable in my corner of the world, and I appreciate that.

We do have more restrained news available. NewsHour with Jim Lehrer is pretty good, as are most things on PBS and NPR. Newspapers tend to be pretty awful, though there are exceptions like the Christian Science Monitor, a wonderful paper with international focus that avoids sensationalism with respect to even great tragedies like natural disasters. When you do want political opinion, there are intelligent political/cultural/literary magazines available such as The Atlantic Monthly, The Nation, and National Review.

[Abharsair]

The current administration aside, American nationalism has been relatively benign and actually quite successful at creating a common identity for Americans of disparate ethnic origins and faiths. It's not fair to compare American nationalism with the ethnonationalism that took as an identity a single ethnic group and the "nation" and made homogeneity a priority.

I can't quite agree with this statement. No one denies that a healthy patriotism is beneficial to a nation, since it boosts a national identity which can compensate for a lack of cultural and historical similarities among ethnically diverse people. However, whether it is ethnonationalism (as you called it) or just nationalism does not make much difference in regards to the danger of imposing a country's interests based on the belief of its own superiority (whether it is culturally, racially or economically) on other nations. That's why I think there is a fine line between patriotism (love and devotion to one's country) and nationalism (a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups) which should not be crossed. One could even argue that some of the more questionable decisions in America's foreign policies throughout the last half of the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st were at least partly influenced by nationalism rather than patriotism. And when watching the infamous Fox News or listening to Rush Limbaugh, I have to say this aforementioned line is frequently crossed, and it causes me some unease and sometimes even slight anger.

We do have more restrained news available. NewsHour with Jim Lehrer is pretty good, as are most things on PBS and NPR. Newspapers tend to be pretty awful, though there are exceptions like the Christian Science Monitor, a wonderful paper with international focus that avoids sensationalism with respect to even great tragedies like natural disasters. When you do want political opinion, there are intelligent political/cultural/literary magazines available such as The Atlantic Monthly, The Nation, and National Review.

I know the Christian Science Monitor and read the occasional article there, whereas the other papers you mentioned are unknown to me. And no, it wasn't my intention to imply that all of your media is biased, hyped and mostly ignoring what goes on outside of your borders. There's always exceptions. But it's a fact that Fox News is still the number one rated cable news program in the US, and most people have neither the time nor the motivation to get their news from more than just one source like maybe you or I do. And this is a reason for concern.

[Grindel]

Great topic to say something wrong and inappropriate, so here we go

I risk to say that there are indeed many anti-american views in Germany (we love to complain). I don't think it is hate, though, and I don't think it is aimed at individual people. We just fail to understand many ways America works.

There are quite huge differences in culture and politics which use to astonish germans, be it the patriotism, world-police-ambitions, gun laws, (missing) heath care, in-fact-corporate-run government, death penalty, or prison for a blow job (dunno if that's actually true, there you are with quick judgements )

But seriously:

The german reluctance to show any patriotic or nationalistic attitude after the war is understandable. That makes us often look suspicious onto nations that show patriotism, be it Britain, France or the USA. Combined with the current US-administration and their foreign policy, you have the reason for the criticism from here.

The G.W. problem will solve itself soon, and as our own government is busy destroying neat things like health care an such, we reduce the differences as we speak. Still need to work on our patriotism, though.

Oh, and we love TV shows by HBO, German productions are crap.

[Abharsair]

The german reluctance to show any patriotic ... attitude after the war...

While still subdued in comparison to let's say the US, I think it has gotten better in the last decade or so.

Oh, and we love TV shows by HBO, German productions are crap.

Don't forget Showtime.

[isengoo]

All hail our glorious leader!

[vurdijak]

Are there lots of people who immigrate to Germany? For instance, is there a big group of Americans living over there permanently, who might eventually settle and become Germans themselves?

I ask, because many of my ancestors were German, settling Texas in the mid 1800's. All German language use in my family ended with my grandparents. Most familial ties were ruptured with WWI and ended all together in WWII. Some small town newspapers here were even published in German until that time, but the sentiment during WWII made it unwise to continue the publications.

[Naga]

Are there lots of people who immigrate to Germany?

If you consider Turks people!

[Grindel]

If you consider Turks people!

Come on now, you can do better than that!

Are there lots of people who immigrate to Germany?

As for immigrating from America: not that I am aware of, in fact many Germans leave for the USA or Scandinavia. But unlike some hundred years ago it is the the doctors and highly trained engineers that leave... but that's a different story.

[Abharsair]

Are there lots of people who immigrate to Germany? For instance, is there a big group of Americans living over there permanently, who might eventually settle and become Germans themselves?

A bit more than 8% of the population are foreigners. Largest group are Turks with 1.74 million, followed by 535,000 Italians, 362,000 Poles, 317,000 Serbs, and so on. There are a few Americans living here, but mostly due to the army or through their companies. Usually every year more people come to Germany than leave it, so there is some net immigration surplus.

Unlike in the US, someone born in Germany isn't automatically German if the parents aren't German themselves, so there can be second and third generation foreigners living here (as is the case with many Turks). To become a German one has to live for eight years legally in Germany, or be married to a German for two years and live in Germany for three.

[Olrane]

That's interesting. I always thought that it was silly that being born by chance on American soil entitles you to citizenship. I'm glad to hear that it doesn't work that way everywhere, as it causes a lot of real and imagined harm here. The imagined harm is the worst, with anti-Mexican sentiment running wild based on hyped up news like Fox. Damn I hate Fox News.

[Naga]

I ask, because many of my ancestors were German, settling Texas in the mid 1800's. All German language use in my family ended with my grandparents. Most familial ties were ruptured with WWI and ended all together in WWII. Some small town newspapers here were even published in German until that time, but the sentiment during WWII made it unwise to continue the publications.

That's basically the story of most of America.

America has nearly 50 million citizens who identify themselves by German ethnicity.