News item Looting Illegal..declares the Gvt of Elvandar

[triska]

Brought forward from the posts about coins and banking:-

To throw my two coins worth into the arena I agree with a lot of what has been said except that now the Elvandar Government have made it illegal to 'loot' (collect spoils, tidy up belongings of dead beings, ) it is hard for a new character to gather enough coins to do what he needs initially let alone bank them for prosperity.

New people need coins for :-
Equipment (armours , whetstone, backpack, compass, needle , repairing hammer and weapons.)
Citizenship
Some Guild training-equipment
Replacement Tell rings when the free one perishes
Sometimes food.

Skalds have to pay for every lesson they learn in languages till they are at a level when they can learn to talk them hence sing them. They have to pay to train voice, instrument, and song . The cost of the instrument is quite expensive for a new person especially when they look at the instrument list and check each item but that item doesnt tell you till you have bought it that you cant use it for a good percentage of the magical songs and some instruments for none of the regular songs.

Scribes I beleive need to have parchments and ink and jade and not sure what else since my character isnt one but all I think have to be paid for since at low levels they wont be stong enough to go kill zillions of moles to make parchments etc.

Now if a youngster is to get strong or even get a start on his/her skills then the place they can go to alone and survive is most likely gremlins and nibblers.

So what happens now , the yongster goes there and a sathony priest appears and scares them with threats next time they will be sacrificed eaten etc.... or The Bishop of Elvandar turns up and interrogates them because they are 'looting' and selling the equipment to raise the coins they have been ubable to make from the quests they have managed to do and not all are quest experts.

A youngster is not safe to wander to bugbear camp or even strong enough if they were unless taken in a group and not many other places are Newbie friendly especially to first time players in the world of Forostar.

There is a trading skill which also when used wisely can help train other skills but if 'loot' is not to be sold and the coins given to the poor how can the game thrive if people leave because those who have done all they now preach others shouldnt be done keep harrassing other players with 'THEIR' morals rules and beleifs.

Oh yes I know I will be preached at for this posting but go ahead preach about it till you have no one to preach to!!

[Chikatilo]

Scribes and skalds can sell their work, at least most.. older members can support them a little to get started if the coins are a huge problem.

[triska]

Chikatilo wrote

Scribes and skalds can sell their work, at least most.. older members can support them a little to get started if the coins are a huge problem

Yes they can once they have learned it, my point is they will be a lot longer learning it if they dont have the means to buy the lessons and equipment to learn it.

[Chikatilo]

equipment can be loaned, singing doesn't need anything and practicing yourself is enabled after a single lesson?

I am not directly against this, just finding weak points.

[Chikatilo]

And I'm not sure if it is the newbies that are threatened huge amounts, lectured yes.

Also, since this problem is caused fully ic and it is RP'd it should then be solved ic..

[krelji]

Also, since this problem is caused fully ic and it is RP'd it should then be solved ic..

I'd love to discuss the issue icly in Elvandar, but I doubt that my char is willing to
face the consequences for discussing the issue with the judge. My char knows that
the law is in it's current form hypocritical bullshit, and he finds it quite amusing that
this fact is beyond the mental capabilities of Crusaders or Taniel Clerics.

[Yoda]

1) thilden scalps are an easy source of money for newbies
2) gremlins are not in Elvandar
3) if looting doesn't appeal, herbs can be found and sold with zero skill
4) money from the above methods can be used for training in other skills that produce income

[krelji]

1) thilden scalps are an easy source of money for newbies

Scalping corpses is more questionable than looting corpses. Considering that elves
are supposed to be more civilized than humans, it's quite astonishing that the elves
are tolerating such barbaric methods.

As far as I remember it is illegal in Elvandar to skin corpses, and scalping corpses is
just that - the partial skinning of a corpse.

[Chikatilo]

Maybe the place to bring them should be switched? It needs to be easy to find by newbies but Arborea is far from thildens.

[krelji]

I wasn't suggesting to move the scalping business to Arborea, but to remove it.
Of course we would need some craft guilds in Elvandar then, either additional
guildhouses of the existing ones, or new unique craft guilds suitable for Elvandar.
Personally I think this would make a lot more sense than the current situation.

[triska]

Yoda offered

1) thilden scalps are an easy source of money for newbies
2) gremlins are not in Elvandar
3) if looting doesn't appeal, herbs can be found and sold with zero skill
4) money from the above methods can be used for training in other skills that produce income

My recollection of thidlens was that if you found them assuming you went to Elvandar early enough in your 'youth to be handed the leaflet, that they are actually for someone wearing a woolen shirt and linen trousers and a starter sword quite vicious.

Looting may appeal if not harrassed by the Bishop of Elvandar as to why a person is looting gremlin corpses! Especially if the new person has no clue what belongs to which city.

Herbing is fine - agree with that

But the other skills for fighters or fighting orientated characters require a modicome of income to buy the equipment needed to train fighting skills which they cant do when they are out picking pretty flowers and seraching for scalps which they only get half the amout of value for unless they are a citizen of Elvandar.

[Chikatilo]

most Asral followers disagree with the loot law anyway so it makes some great rp if they gather and make their own law.

[triska]

most Asral followers disagree with the loot law anyway so it makes some great rp if they gather and make their own law.

Older characters yes but I am talking about NEW people and giving them a reason to enjoy coming to the world to play not 1000 reasons why they cant do stuff that in most muds is the norm ... if its good rp to have a fight with a character much older than you about why you just took the belongings off a corpse then fine but in my humble opinon new comers want to experience killing something and getting the nice coins from the man in the shop for their efforts so they can go buy a nicer sword.

Later when they are older and better equipped maybe asral / taniel / sathony fights discussions yes but not initially.

Ohhh an one other thing , how does an older player that has not looted a corpse manage to have or buy a wonderful rare piece of weaponry or armour or ever afford to buy the minerals to have custom made. And on a stupid moral ideal too if its in the shops someone looted it and sold it does it make it right for an Elvandar shop to sell the stuff to you and make a huge profit.

[Herst]

I agree the looting law may be annoying to some new players. I think in some cases it may even turn them away from the MUD, but in other cases some will stay when they see the RP behind it. So, nothing is certain there.

What is certain is that it is an IC conflict that needs to be solved IC.

The situation adds for a good RP conflict. I can think of plenty of things that can either resolve or escalate the situation. Most people just want to complain about it and then either abide by it or ignore it so they can continue on with doing whatever they were doing before. Well, they are ignoring a situation in their world, so the situation remains the same and can even get worse. The fault belongs to those who ignored it and let it continue and grow.

I have been wondering for a very long time why certain groups just let things continue and all they do is complain about it. One person decides to speak out about it, and no one supports them visually....they just whine about it at the marketplace but care to do nothing to change it.

"Lets go kill them thar trolls, yup yup lol"

[stilgar]

I think this situation is only a scratch on the surface of more problems mentioned at different places a lot of times. As I think its a more complex problem than it looks for the first I tried to gather a few thougts on the whole economy and its connection to politics of GEAS and started a new topic on it here

[Chikatilo]

if the looting rule gets rid of players, it can also bring them. It is a step away from hack and slash so of course it separates players.

[Abharsair]

As already mentioned in this thread, this is entirely an IC issue and should be treated as such. If you don't like what a judge does, elect a different one who changes the laws. This has been done in the past, and could be done again if enough players want it and actually try to do something about it.

Stilgar's thread, however, is worth a discussion. Improving the economy is always a good idea.

[Grindel]

Online-gamers are hunters and gatherers -- and looting is one of the most ancient concepts of these games. If a newbie is punished for looting (and it's mostly newbies that loot) he or she will be gone for good before you can say "that's an IC-issue", because it's not.

[stilgar]

This is an easy-to-handle issue. You simply include it into the newbie guide and into help files/hints.

[luminier]

I don't know... I once thought that it might drive players away, but if they are leaving because they don't want to RP whats the point in having them here anyways? It could be a good way to "cleanse", we have plenty of people already that care only for killing and not for much else.