Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

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Arogarn
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Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#1 Post by Arogarn » Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:01 am

Every now and then, a newbie (like me) enlists in the trappers guild, posts to the board and is never heard of again.
Not surprisingly, as there's little to do besides ... frustratingly nothing?! (Ok, might be exaggerated, but ...)

What's wrong ?
- training "set traps" is arduous, and expensive: training to lvl 3 costs roughly as much as 3 hare/rabbit furs, which one can't get by trapping at this skill level at all; That means grinding gremlins/nibbler for money and weapon skill - and after doing that, it's easier to shoot/sneak attack the animals than to trap them. SUCKS!

- at the same time, prices even for trappers who are full gild members and citizens of Arborea are very low while the guild is making a huge profit (or would make, if those items would stay in the list long enough to be bought by e.g. beginning parchement makers/scribes/tailor/repairers):

Code: Select all

Elbron tells you in Common: You sold a bad red fox fur for 1 bronze
coin and 5 copper coins, 3% sales tax already subtracted.
list
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|No. |Item                                    |Amount| Price                 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|# 10|bad red fox fur                         |     1|             4 bc  2 cc|
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- surprisingly enough, trappers need some skill of appraise enemy / object, and forest lore, and tracking, and skinning, butchering and dissecting, but all those are not teached by the guild.

- there's nothing else the guild has to offer: no special items (there is a "trapper knife" in the game, which may or may not help with skinning/butchering, but it's not offered to guild members), no free equipment despite Elbron saying so, and nothing else, only 2 rather bleak guild rooms with unusuable features and a message board where the sad situation is documented all too well .. for years now !

- missing help files
'help set traps' is actually 'skill set traps', and of no help at all
'help adjust trap' is not available at all. Somewhere is a piece of text 'bout that command, that is actually missleading, or I completely missunderstood it.


What can be done?
Obviously, reversing the points listed above, what should be quite easily possible in most cases, I guess.

Most Easy
- add some text to Elbron like "Training? I offer lessons, but you'll have to practice in the field. It's legal for guild members to hunt and trap in the Arborean gardens - in fact, numbers of hares and rabbits there sometimes get a bit out of hand. But make sure not to hurt anyone or an animal that's someone possession."
- I have submitted help files for both 'set traps' and 'adjust traps' which are pending acceptance by the wizzies (might be that they're wrong, after all).
- Adusting the training costs for full members
- Adjustig the item prices: Should be at least 66% of selling prices instead of 33%, or better higher as long as the guild has nothing else to offer.
- Prices for furs/skin might be higher, but then, the whole economic system needs an overhaul (what ain't easy no more ..)
- Sinew, feathers and furs should stay in the store inventory much longer, so other player can actually buy them. It's pretty much unlikely that it will get cluttered anytime soon, anyway.

Harder
- make the "trapper knife" good for skinning/dissecting/butchering, if it isn't already
- make it available to guild members; Full members for free, seasonal members for a fee (oh, wait, then some resourceful player could start making profits by dealing in those knives .. unless it's on per member only. How do other guilds handle this?)

.. I'll add things here as they come to my mind or disscussion brings them up (or brought them up, I happen to find the old posts) ..

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Delia
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#2 Post by Delia » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:53 am

(oh, wait, then some resourceful player could start making profits by dealing in those knives .. unless it's on per member only. How do other guilds handle this?)
Shop logs can always be tracked so if let us say that the suspicious cloaked male human bought ten of those nifty daggers the guild masters might want to look into it...

Good that you started this thread for the trappers need SOMETHING. Having sold goods stay longer there might be a start. When the next babyboom hits the scribes there'll be a world of leathers, furs and whatnots needed.
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Delmon
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#3 Post by Delmon » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:18 pm

I agree with Arogarn. The guild has a lot of potential but it comes up short right now. Great thoughts Arogarn.

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Delia
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#4 Post by Delia » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:19 am

- Adusting the training costs for full members
Yes, easily accessible skill training for trappers sounds good. They could also offer training in variety of skills related to survival, hunting and trapping in general with varying efficiency/cost.

Spear, Knife, Missile, Throwing, Sneak, Hide, Set Traps, Forest Lore, Awareness, Tracking, Animal Lore, Skin, Butcher, Dissect and Fishing come easily to mind. Even if paying for the chance improve might seem reduntant to some because of learn-by-doing, some players might actually enjoy the slightly faster skillgain rate the used coin buys and it would give the trappers something of their own atleast -> trained hunters.

If an abundance of trainable skills offered seems too much...have novice trappers prove their worth first with setting traps and other 'simple' guildrelated skilluse/other tasks before allowing to use the full training list. Of course guest members cannot benefit from training as with other guilds.
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#5 Post by ganandorf » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:17 am

I'm not going to lie i think in general the trappers guild is useless. Most of the skills that were listed above to make the trappers guild look like they come straight from the rangers. Maybe there should be some sort of combination of rangers/trappers guild. They trap and protect the forests?
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Delia
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#6 Post by Delia » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:11 am

Well...not necessarily everyone who plays a 'rangerish' character wishes to join the rangers and yes the trappers look pretty much like a little brother to the rangers even without the training options. What divides them is that the trappers do what they do for coin, not for some protecting this or that or fighting evil all around ideology. It is a common job for common people. That said...I think Geas could use more "useless" stuff.
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#7 Post by ganandorf » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:47 am

Oh I wasnt aware that the rangers did what they did for coin, i knew that the scalps were originally supposed to be for the rangers, but i thought all rangers were just children of the wild, who wished to protect the forests, my mistake
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#8 Post by Delia » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:27 am

Well, the rangers do scalp, which the average trapper would not do. Rangers are paid to protect the realm, or so I understand it more or less even if anyone can go do scalp runs. I'd imagine the trappers are more after more normal game than giants and other monsters.
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tessa
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#9 Post by tessa » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:42 pm

Trappers = hunt animals, sell furs, meat, parts, etc.

Rangers = Protect forests, kill goblinoids, act as road vigilantes, etc.

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luminier
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#10 Post by luminier » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:40 am

Im going to go ahead and say aside from maybe trapping and having a love affair with forests, rangers and trappers are not much alike at all.
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#11 Post by gawyn » Thu May 06, 2010 11:44 am

is there anything being done with regards to arogarn's post?

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luminier
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#12 Post by luminier » Thu May 06, 2010 3:27 pm

After re-reading what Arogarn wrote, it is clear that he wants to trapper guild to have more of a value that it does right now. Also to include help files.

IMO I agree with Arogarn. The Trappers guild is pretty useless and really only worth it for maybe aspiring rangers/thieves to get traps (and train set traps) at a discount (if thats even true).

Maybe if you would like to see some changes, summarize some things you would like to see (you can take them from Arogarn if you would like) and post them.
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Re: Trappers Guild - an exercise in futility

#13 Post by lanyara » Thu May 06, 2010 6:27 pm

They are a bit unfinished, I think, because they are quite old, and other guilds were more important later (tanners, bookbinders, scribe etc..)

I think the best would be to answer some questions about the guild:

- what should it offer (feature-wise)
- more traps?
if more traps, what type of traps, how to make them?

I would have a few ideas to address his old statements:
after doing that, it's easier to shoot/sneak attack the animals than to trap them.
The idea would be to trap "expensive" animals with traps. And, to also lower the amount of animals in general - he is completely right, it is super easy to kill animals by running towards them and hunting them down, best with a bow.

Those with setting traps have it quite a bit harder...
- surprisingly enough, trappers need some skill of appraise enemy / object, and forest lore, and tracking, and skinning, butchering and dissecting, but all those are not teached by the guild.
Agreed here I think. Some of these skills could be taught by him to full members.

About special items ... I think that would require descriptions.
Description help wizards! As they'd have to invest less time thinking about proper stuff :D
Best race: halflings.

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