What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

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lanyara
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What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#1 Post by lanyara » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:21 am

Let me try to get a somewhat accurate number of more-or-less active characters in guilds here. I'll ignore non-guilded chars, it makes things a bit easier. If you only want to read the provocative statement at the bottom... ignore the long rest in between ;)

The numbers will inevitably be only an approximation, and I will only count guilded chars that login perhaps ... 2x times in one reallife week, and play for at least, let's say ... 2-3 hours in that week. Otherwise, I don't think you can be really that active if you don't play that character.

"Active" Taniel clerics: 8.
Their racial distribution: 3x elves, 2x half-elves, 1x human, 1x dwarf, 1x halfling, 0x tshaharks

"Active" Crusader warriors: 6.
Their racial distribution: 3x human, 1x dwarf, 1x halfling, 1x tshaharks, 0x elves, 0x half-elves.

"Active" Sathonys clerics: 5. (difficult to say, that's just a very rough estimate, number could be higher or even lower, if I see a masked person it could be like everyone!).
Their ~racial distribution: 2x darkelves, 2x humans, 1x dwarves, 0x half-elves, 0x halflings, 0x tshaharks

Even if the above is not true, and may be higher, I think the number would add to more humans and darkelves here.

"Active" Asral clerics: 6.
Their racial distribution: 4x humans, 2x dwarves, 0x half-elves, 0x halflings, 0x tshaharks, 0x elves

I am a bit surprised that there are no elves or half-elves here. I also have a hard time remembering any. Where are the bloodthirsty ... blood elves? :)
But might as well be that there were dozens of them in between the time I was not playing!

"Active" Shaolin warriors: 7.
Their racial distribution: 3x elves, 2x half-elf, 1x human, 1x tshaharks, 0x dwarves, 0x halflings

Hmm we could argue here, perhaps there is one more halfling but seems to be sleepy, and I think there may be one more elf/half-elf or humans which I forgot, but let's stick to these numbers for now. (If shaolins philosophize on top of mountain peaks far far away it gets to be harder to see if they are active! But at least they aren't THAT sleepy, after all.)

"Active" Rangers: 4
Their racial distribution: 2x elves, 1x half-elf, 1x human, 0x tshaharks, 0x dwarves, 0x halflings

Rangers should be an ideal guild for elves! Wondering why there are not more of them active hmmmm.

I am tempted to include scribes here, but they are not a real "major" guild per se. But for the sake of the racial distribution within the "major scribe" characters, I would state this:

2x humans, 1x elf (don't know if I left out someone here, I did however not include any char that was member in a "major" guild, i.e. not going to count a shaolin scribe here.)

These three "main" scribes characters are really quite active and I include them in the list of "guilded" characters even if they are not really a major guild.

Now ... there may be some more guilds, like secret guilds ... but to be honest I will claim that their numbers must be significantly lower than the above, or that they just hide very efficiently (so much that you don't get to meet them at all? Hmm.) Of course this is all only an OOC argument: from an IC perspective it would be difficult to reason that an evil guild is weak _only_ because it (OOCly) does not have enough active players.

They could still be absolute kick-ass, and powerful and a threat. Secret or more hidden guilds often also have an IC background history which can sometimes add to problems (but this is just a general statement here, it really depens a LOT more on the active players of such a guild)

Anyway, if you don't get to see them much in-game we can ignore their numbers for now, and even if we would include their numbers I'd say they would mostly add up to humans and darkelves. I.e. I can't think of further guilded and active evil dwarves, halflings or tshaharks.

I guess the tendency for evil elves is to more readily be a darkelf rather than
to "stay" an elf.

I also leave out druids because they seem to be inactive.

So, let's count (hope I didn't miscount):

A total of at least 39 active and guilded characters.

Their racial distribution is:
humans: 14
elves: 9
dwarves: 5
half-elves: 5
darkelves: 2
halflings: 2
tshaharks: 2

The above can be debated, i.e. I have a feeling that there are more active darkelves in guilds than my numbers would suggest right now. We can however say that darkelves are slightly stronger elves, simply because they started out as elves, so we could include them into the "elf faction".

Still, don't read too much into this - it should be more a "hint" than a really
accurate list.

An inescapable conclusion would be that humans lead this list, followed by elves/darkelves, then dwarves / half-elves.

The biggest "losers" far behind are halflings and tshaharks, as far as guilded
characters are concerned. If I compare this list to the ancient days then I do
think that there used to be a few more halflings, and some more tshaharks, but even back then the difference was not that large compared to right now.

So my provocative statement:

If you want to join a major guild and play in it, don't pick tshahark or
halfling as race.

:)
Best race: halflings.

per
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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#2 Post by per » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:38 am

When was the last time you saw an active, guildless, tshahark?

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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#3 Post by Delmon » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:14 pm

Guilds change over time. Tshaharks come and go. People create alts and join other guilds. It's just not probable to conclude that halflings and tshaharks have a difficult time joining a guild. Perhaps humans with their versatility and general strengths are an incentive to creating and playing one??

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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#4 Post by matusalem » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:30 pm

I don't believe it's some sort of game mechanic keeping a lot of races out of guilds. I believe it's more indicative of the human mindset. Years ago, before I ever played Geas, I played another now defunct MUD. I remember having a conversation with one of the women players. In this conversation, I understood that in the case of female players, they often want to identify with a character that has some level of sex appeal. I'm not saying they all want to play the game as lascivious sluts. I'm saying that with a number of expectable exceptions, most female players want to play and identify with a character they see as attractive. This is why you see very few female Tshaharks and Dwarves, and to a lesser extent Halflings. I think in a way, this can also be extended to male players, but in a different way. Males, and of course with a number of exceptions, want to play the tough masculine hero. Now while a fat bearded dwarf, or a scaly lizard monster can be a tough, masculine hero, they're typically not what pop-culture says our heros are suppose to look like. They're rugged and handsome. Humans, Elves, Halfelves. (In my last game, I played a race which was a cross between kenders, hobbits, and the rabbits from Watership Down. I made the character as a "mighty hero" by his own admission to poke fun at this mentality that was heavily prevalent in that game.) This can also be extended to other character concepts, like the Druids. Druids aren't heros, they're pacifists. This is why there have mainly been female druids most active and most recently. So in the end, I personally don't believe Halflings or Tshaharks are somehow hindered in joining a guild. I think it's a sum of human nature and general circumstance that attribute to the numbers you have come up with.

On a personal note, I rolled a halfling so I wouldn't have to be taken too seriously. I don't want a character that's taken as seriously as a human cleric or crusader would have to be. As for the guilds he's joined, I've pretty much gone with the flow and followed whatever opportunities that are presented to him. In creating Matusalem, I NEVER intended for him to be a Tanielite cleric and even less so a Crusader, but that is what has happened. In fact the guilds I wanted to join in the past, wouldn't have me. (On a divergent topic, that's also why I never try to chisel my character's concept too deeply in stone.)

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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#5 Post by luminier » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:07 am

I have to say when I made Luminier I wanted him to be a tough guy that was a hero to everyone and mattered alot. Now hes the Lord Marshall, Fairly gritty i think and has an eye-patch. Perfect.

but anyways off topic.

I do agree with Matusalem though. Girls generally want to have characters with a bit of sex appeal (obviously there is Andy and other notable exceptions) and Guys want some masculine powerhouse (and then theres Naga, the enigma). This will tend to draw characters away from doing certain things. I think matusalem said it nicely though. Personally I like the exceptions, they bring more to the table in the end I think.
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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#6 Post by lanyara » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:51 am

Luminier should become a tshahark seriously ... perhaps the scribes could start a research program here. And as mount we replace the unicorn with a giant lizard (can't enter cold areas though, would freeze quickly and be immobile)

Edit: Just realized ... we could extend that to gender. It seems as if most guild leaders today are all female (possibly including Luminier's ... soft side ... who knows when and if Arwenth takes over.)
Best race: halflings.

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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#7 Post by luminier » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:37 am

Luminier has no soft side. You'll find all his sides are quite well armoured. But in all seriousness I gently roleplayed out my softside IC years ago. Now it's all business no pleasure.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#8 Post by isengoo » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:05 am

Dwarf is the master race.

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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#9 Post by lanyara » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:31 am

Hmmm .... in team PvP situations it seems as if having a human char is much better than having a halfling char (especially if that halfling is lazy and not training enough).
Best race: halflings.

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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#10 Post by luminier » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:48 am

To be honest id rather have Matusalem shooting the crap out of people while I stand in front meat shielding. Much better than two meat shields.
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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#11 Post by Delmon » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:02 pm


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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#12 Post by lanyara » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:29 am

I suppose Mr. M trained quite a lot, and I think without a bow he'd seem less dangerous and thus a lot cuter. :)

@Delmon, I read through the guide carefully now but only tried scanning for references to halflings.

There were two references to halflings as far I could see:
Halflings: Good with dexterity and agility. Bad with constitution. Great if you want to make a light armoured thief. Not so great as a warrior. Bad if you want an armoured tank.
Halfling: Somewhat difficult to RP due to their "lack of origin"/culture. I like playing them because they are weak and that forces you to be different and find new solutions, and it also makes combat more interesting.
Unfortunately I only know of two halfling thieves who played for a significant amount of time. Are there any active today at all? Either there aren't or they just hide perfectly well. I only know of one bigger halfling shaolin either and although I can reckon that this must have been the ultimate troll tank I doubt that this strategy works as decently as an elf shaolin for the same amount of time invested.

The only thing which could probably be a big difference is missile system (high dex of halflings), but I don't see a ranger halfling either anywhere.

As for halfling as clerics, they weren't mentioned in the guide. What should possibly be mentioned is that a low con gets to be a huge liability in team PvP situations. Certain miracles of opponents will go in and cause quite a lot of damage, and you can't do anything of significance in melee in return. You could alternate between mood wimpy and mood defend but the moment you are hurt significantly this strategy just doesn't work anymore at all (cure is great but it is also a time where you can't do anything else).

This strategy works even less so if there are more people involved.
So you will be a weak spot in your team, a human cleric would be a lot better in my opinion. (I also don't think it is very stylish to start using bows as a cleric, although probably that should be done for PvP efficiency reasons, as you can add another strategy to your array of what-is-possible. But gah that, really ...)

Druids could be nice for halflings but as long as they are bugged they aren't really an option. Theory is nice but if noone wants to play a halfling ... Mr M. seems to be the last manling standing here.

Perhaps the magic system would be an option but I also have the feeling that at least in the very beginning elves half-elves and humans will dominate here.
Best race: halflings.

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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#13 Post by luminier » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:51 pm

I wouldn't say noone wants to play a halfling, but, I must go back to Matusalems point about girls and guys. Generally girls want sex appeal and generally guys want heroes. Halflings are usually neither sexy or heroes.
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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#14 Post by matusalem » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:58 am

You get back what you put into any character. I sometimes believe Matusalem would be quite scary if he still remained a Taniel cleric. All his short comings in melee combat could be compensated for through miracles; however, when I was a cleric, I hardly ever trained his combat abilities. It wasn't until after he left the clergy that he worked on maxing all his combat skills. If those were coupled with max miracles, he wouldn't be too shabby. (I'm of the opinion anyone with miracles automatically becomes substantially more powerful.) I bring this up from time to time, but Matusalem has in the past defeated Luminier in a spar. One time out of several... true... but it still shows there is something there. Judging a halfling as overly hindered from a lower or middling level isn't quite fair to the possible capabilities of the race.

Now on a tangent I know nothing about as far as Geas is concerned. I developed the opinion years before ever playing Geas that under no circumstance is a night-blind race a good choice to be a thief. Halflings are night-blind and this is why I would personally never want to play one as a thief. Granted, in Geas, this isn't as big of a hinderance as it is in other games I've played; however, there are still numerous incidents I can see where I'd much rather have an elven thief than a halfling thief. Merely wanted to though that out there.

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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#15 Post by Olrane » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:52 am

matusalem wrote: Now on a tangent I know nothing about as far as Geas is concerned. I developed the opinion years before ever playing Geas that under no circumstance is a night-blind race a good choice to be a thief. Halflings are night-blind and this is why I would personally never want to play one as a thief. Granted, in Geas, this isn't as big of a hinderance as it is in other games I've played; however, there are still numerous incidents I can see where I'd much rather have an elven thief than a halfling thief. Merely wanted to though that out there.
It is really tough to play a night-blind thief. Elves are probably ideal; they don't have the obvious problem of being a darkelf or the suspicion that halflings get. While I hate hate hate how most thieves in Geas are/were Sathonites, the ghoulish night-sight was a huge boon when I played. As an outlaw, it is pretty much a no-brainer to get yourself a little more vision.

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Re: What race to pick (and then guilds to join)

#16 Post by lanyara » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:16 am

While I hate hate hate how most thieves in Geas are/were Sathonites
I think this is/was mostly because Sathos have - and always have had - a (somewhat?) active clergy available. Clerics in general are pretty nice in the MUD, and it seems to make sense that a player tends to maximize the "resources" - i.e. powers, numbers of active players, accessibility to areas/items etc...

The miracles of clerics are pretty awesome in general, seriously.

They allow you to bypass "race restrictions" partially (i.e. a halfling that can cure, or pray for light miracle, holy word, smites etc.. is pretty cool to have even though halflings normally aren't that ... great in my opinion, with a few exceptions perhaps like sneak/hide/missile perhaps)

As for thieves - respect to anyone who sticks to playing a "thief" altogether and doesn't abandon that concept. Seems pretty difficult to pull through, though, especially as a thief who can't "tap" into an available clergy.
Best race: halflings.

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