Heavy Armours

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Why don't you use heavy armours?

Tires me out too quickly while walking.
15
13%
Tires me out too quickly while fighting.
8
7%
I'm too slow during combat.
24
21%
Doesn't offer enough protection.
18
16%
Not enough high-quality heavy armours available.
12
11%
Heavy Armor skill is too hard to learn.
5
4%
Can't use flickup.
25
22%
Can't use other specials.
7
6%
 
Total votes: 114

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isengoo
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Re: Heavy Armours

#101 Post by isengoo » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:40 pm

Bump. I no longer have those descriptions for Taniel plate armor. Sorry everyone :(

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Re: Heavy Armours

#102 Post by isengoo » Sat Jan 02, 2021 2:53 pm

I would like to recommend that plate do more than flat damage reduction. Perhaps after the damage taken exceeds the flat reduction, there could then a sliding scale of percentage reduction. Right now, with how strong some players have become, there is almost no reason to wear plate because their damage far exceeds the damage reduction of plate. Why sacrifice speed when the defensive effect is negligible? In my opinion, the top end damage of all combats needs to be reduced and the effectiveness of heavy needs to be increased.

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Re: Heavy Armours

#103 Post by Lauriert » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:46 am

As I've said in my pvp thread, the downfall of heavy armor and just armored chars in general is that hand and feet armor aren't that good and it's easy to just attack those places to kill someone.

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Re: Heavy Armours

#104 Post by isengoo » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:26 am

Not really. Strong weapons have no problem going through even maximum armorstats.

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Re: Heavy Armours

#105 Post by Lauriert » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:29 am

I don't doubt that, and I definitely agree armor needs a buff.

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Delia
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Re: Heavy Armours

#106 Post by Delia » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:16 am

Buffing armours to be more effective against twohanders and artifacts might leave anyone not using such high damage output into the dirt and forcing people to use just those couple means for damage.
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Re: Heavy Armours

#107 Post by isengoo » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:33 am

No, it just needs to change from flat reduction to flat + scaling reduction. Reduce the flat reduction and add scaling. This is just a flaw in the game design that has been there since the beginning but has become obvious now with the extreme stats, skills, and items of characters nowadays.

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Re: Heavy Armours

#108 Post by Delia » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:48 am

Good point. Some additional thoughts about armours and powers in game at the moment. Light armour is very favoured in terms of buffs. It will be more common to see light fighters in best light armours they can get and buffed with magic. Mage robes for one can add a great deal to light fighter armourstats and you can roll with it until reboot. Add even more buffs and get even more. Metal armours are squeezed into a very tight, uncomfortable spot at the moment as light fighters can have the same or better armours with none of the penalties. Sure it will not be everyday common but it will affect high level PvP where every edge counts.
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Re: Heavy Armours

#109 Post by ferranifer » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:42 pm

isengoo wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:33 am No, it just needs to change from flat reduction to flat + scaling reduction. Reduce the flat reduction and add scaling. This is just a flaw in the game design that has been there since the beginning but has become obvious now with the extreme stats, skills, and items of characters nowadays.
I think this is a good solution! For example, all armours get to keep half of their flat damage reduction and the rest gets converted into percent damage reduction based on armor type. This will still provide armor to newbies against little cuts from goblins and so on while making sure that medium and heavy armor users have some guaranteed useful reduction against big hits.

With made-up numbers:
Image

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Re: Heavy Armours

#110 Post by isengoo » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:58 pm

ferranifer wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:42 pm
isengoo wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:33 am No, it just needs to change from flat reduction to flat + scaling reduction. Reduce the flat reduction and add scaling. This is just a flaw in the game design that has been there since the beginning but has become obvious now with the extreme stats, skills, and items of characters nowadays.
I think this is a good solution! For example, all armours get to keep half of their flat damage reduction and the rest gets converted into percent damage reduction based on armor type. This will still provide armor to newbies against little cuts from goblins and so on while making sure that medium and heavy armor users have some guaranteed useful reduction against big hits.

With made-up numbers:
Image
I wholeheartedly support this idea.

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Brand
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Re: Heavy Armours

#111 Post by Brand » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:56 pm

I will happily second this

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Re: Heavy Armours

#112 Post by Skragna » Sat Jan 23, 2021 2:35 am

I'm dragging myself back out of forum-lurking just to put the Skragna Seal Of Approval on this post, myself.

This would go MILES toward making heavy armor actually viable.

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Re: Heavy Armours

#113 Post by Delmon » Sat Jan 23, 2021 1:53 pm

Just a few thoughts...heavy armors are useful currently in team compositions. Heavy armors are at a disadvantage in 1v1 fighting at high levels, but it -does- slow down the fight/ help protect the backrow in team fighting. Not every hit is max dmg that exceeds the armor threshold (think for example backstab, would you rather be in plate or leather). My prediction is by buffing up the armors is that we will see significantly more effective teams. Example goodies & their crusaders with heavy armor tanking will be a very sought after part of the team. This will naturally buff the goodies with more teaming potential and allies. Fights will be slower, increasing the effectiveness of miracles which are static timed, regardless of armor level. Clerics will see a significant defensive bonus, and therefore highly buffed. It will increase the usefulness of backrow missile users such as rangers. Buffing heavy armor will lesson the effectiveness of the shoalin. Items such as potions and other add-ons will be sought after more and used more frequently due to length of fights. Heavy armored NPCs will be more difficult to beat. Magic users will see increased effectiveness with spells that can avoid armor/stun/disarm/etc. Player limb targeting will see more strategic importance (use of scan to identify lower armored limbs). Guild membership will be more necessary for allies because teaming is now more important. All this will be countered by an increased incentive to get weapons that avoid armor or do even more dmg (artifacts).

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Re: Heavy Armours

#114 Post by Lauriert » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:00 am

As it is now, it feels like armor is balanced to be realistic in a world where people achieve strength that is very unrealistic and/or incredibly rare IRL. Having it scaled would make a huge difference in letting tank character stand on their own in higher level pvp. And since tanks often use shields, and don't hit as hard, it would make pvp more than just boiling down to who hits each other first in all scenarios. Even for light fighters, this would make some difference even in a battle with another light fighter towards making it so it's not just whoever whacks the other first.

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Re: Heavy Armours

#115 Post by iza » Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:41 pm

This question was posted a long time ago but it seems like nothing has changed yet? If so i will post my thoughts :)

My problem with heavy armour is that not only are you slower and parry/defense worse but you also attack worse. I am okay with being slower and not defending as well but attacking worse means that the only time you can wear heavy/medium armour is when you are fighting in a group and just need to tank. High armour skill should help scale armour to its highest potential and help nuffily attacking worse, but not really help much with being slower and defending worse.. Being very slow, defending worse and not being able to use certain special/flickup, exhaustion are bad enough draw backs but a terrible hit rate will always keep it rather unattractive.

The other problem with armours in general is that its not the hit that often kills you, its the bleeding. Right now heavy armour is only good for npc that attack fast making you bleed out, you don't really even need that much skill to pull this off as long as you have someone else to kill things for you. For everything else though, it just better not to get hit especially with thrust and specials eatting through any armour you might have. This game should really greatly reduce bleeding rate from strikes that are not critical hits or certain specials.

Lastly, I like the idea of percent damage reduction instead of flat reduction, especially since it looks like sathonys got a short end of the stick a bit, would like to see them get 1.5 % damage reduction per level, with tshaharsk starting with 5-7% themsleves.
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Re: Heavy Armours

#116 Post by Abharsair » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:38 pm

iza wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:41 pm This question was posted a long time ago but it seems like nothing has changed yet? If so i will post my thoughts :)

My problem with heavy armour is that not only are you slower and parry/defense worse but you also attack worse. I am okay with being slower and not defending as well but attacking worse means that the only time you can wear heavy/medium armour is when you are fighting in a group and just need to tank.

...

Lastly, I like the idea of percent damage reduction...

I'm not going to make any promises, but I'll discuss the issue with the other Admins.
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Re: Heavy Armours

#117 Post by Abharsair » Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:26 pm

There will be some changes shortly after the next reboot. I'll post details in the "news" section once I'll activate said changes.
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iza
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Re: Heavy Armours

#118 Post by iza » Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:40 am

Thanks for looking into this, I look forward to seeing the changes!
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Re: Heavy Armours

#119 Post by Delmon » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:54 am

Hi, this should please many players as it’s been a big issue for many players. Question, does this mean that low dmg two handed weapons and fists against heavy armor will do even less? Our chars will both have to get through the flat dmg reduction and the percent reduction so it even more so incentivizes using two handed weapons. Thoughts? Thanks!

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Re: Heavy Armours

#120 Post by Abharsair » Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:44 am

Delmon wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:54 am Hi, this should please many players as it’s been a big issue for many players. Question, does this mean that low dmg two handed weapons and fists against heavy armor will do even less? Our chars will both have to get through the flat dmg reduction and the percent reduction so it even more so incentivizes using two handed weapons. Thoughts? Thanks!
You will do less DPS against (heavily) armored enemies, yes. But that applies to everyone who uses physical attacks. How you overcome that will be up to you.
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