Question about training

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Should the minimum skill level one must have in order to be able to train it to others be lowerd?

No, leave it as it is at 80
11
55%
Yes, lower it to 70
3
15%
Yes, lower it to 60
4
20%
Yes, lower it at 50
1
5%
Disable the minimum skill level at all!
1
5%
 
Total votes: 20

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tannorath
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Question about training

#1 Post by tannorath » Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:55 am

I was thinking and wanted to ask the Coders if the minimum skill level one must have in order to be able to teach it, could be tweaked a bit! 80 is a bit high and i think 60 or 50 would be more apropriate and would make teaching more accesible to a larger player base, therefore making the game more fun!

Since this is only a personal ideea, i wanted to know how the other players feel about it :wink:

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Delia
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#2 Post by Delia » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:00 am

Maybe the difference in skill levels could play a vital role here?

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tannorath
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#3 Post by tannorath » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:04 am

That is already implemented i think and is common sense that it shouldn't be changed, i mean someone with a skill of 80 could teach that skill alot better then someone with a lower skill, based also on its teaching skill and all the other factors the Coders considered!

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#4 Post by lirynel » Wed Jul 27, 2005 4:18 am

This probably won't be a popular outlook but I shall voice it anyway.

Things have changed a great deal since I first playe Geas and mostly for the better. but learning really has become much, much easier than it was before.

This character has about half the online time of one of my earlier ones but vastly superior skills. For the most part that's a good thing, but please don't make it any easier for me,

Give me some goals that take effort to attain! Don't hand everything to us on a plate!

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#5 Post by stilgar » Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:26 am

Lir.. you got the point :wink: Skills cannot be a goal for a character.. if they are.. you're just wasted your time in GEAS

No one else, but you can set up goals for your char, wizzies can only help you with creating events to connect the goals to. We have plenty of those lately (thx to whatever made them! I like each and every of them)

about learning.. it is much easier to specialize.. true.. yet it is almost impossible to be superior in more than one thing.. so there is the place where teamwork (RP :?: ) comes.. those who do not recognise it.. will get bored and will leave :cry: Others will have great fun with nice RP events.. and of course.. with other players and the wizzies :wink:
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#6 Post by lirynel » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:01 am

I agree skills aren't the main object of the game but there are days when getting an improve in some skill or another and seeing the numbers creep up becomes a side goal and it can be what motivates us in the short term. If it's too easy then that motivation goes and it's easy to procrastinate and just sit about and chat. No there's nothing wrong with that either at times but a balance is good and for me that next improve is sometimes the reason to get up and do something and I want a bit of challenge in that.

Also those skills and the improves are part of some our our longer term goals. If your aim is to be the greatest warriror that ever walked Forostar then every improve is a step nearer to that goal. Where's the fun in being the greatest warrior if you can learn it all in a short time of the currently greatest warrior.

Skills are part of the game and are part of what make our characters who and what we are. Let us have to work for that.

If anything I'd raise the level for teaching and make learning a bit harder again, though not like it was.

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#7 Post by Delia » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:16 am

Well...I on the other hand think that learning is quite hard actually, atleast at my level. I'm glad to get an improve in one week, and with my highest combat skills its one per month, if I get lucky.

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#8 Post by tarlon » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:10 am

woow be happy delia once a weak ain´t that bad. But young ones improve fairly fast now. If i heard stuff like more than 100 improves on a single day....
Don´t know it myself i don´t have a young char.

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#9 Post by lirynel » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:21 am

I've counted over 200 improves on my character in a day... Probably one of my longer online days I'll admit but that would have been a while after I started out too as it took me a while to get round to counting just how fast they were coming.

I'm sure it does get difficult for older players but perhaps its just a bit too easy for newcomers? Would it be better to give them slightly higher skills to start but slow down the improves a bit? or maybe just slow it a little in the 20 -70 range? Or am I the only one who sees progress as a bit too quick?

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#10 Post by tannorath » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:28 am

TOO FAST !!!???? i can't remember the last time i got a fighting improve!!! And the skills are around 60-70!

Yeah, maybe till 40 or so the improves come fast, but after that they REALLY lower! I'd say the skills improvement is balanced enough ...

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#11 Post by stilgar » Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:34 am

True.. for those doing nothing else just run around and kill stuff improving is quite easy.. though as soon as they start to do something else.. things start to be more challenging :wink:

Like.. learning languages.. learn some profession.. etc. sooner or later they'll HAVE to.. maybe things will be a bit more interesting then :roll:
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#12 Post by genesis » Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:24 am

Yeah, and newbies - at least me - hate it really when they can't progress.

Progress is something that keeps you playing the game.

Community is the thing that keeps you RPing.
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#13 Post by Kortha » Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:24 am

I could see lowering the teaching requirement to 75, but I wouldn't want it any lower than that because then everyone and their brother would be teaching and learning out the wazoo. If it's so easy to learn that everyone ends up with all their important skills at 100 in a few months, there'll be much less opportunity for someone to go "hey help me survive blahblah place". As it is, Kor has 7 combat skills teachable, and I've only been playing her for a couple of ic years. Compare this to a way old char who has 11 combat skills teachable.
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#14 Post by iza » Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:12 am

I started playing right before the new system, un-guilded i spent the first 3 weeks fighting nibblers. It was boring and repetitive but other then goblins it was the best way to get +++, got my skills to 40 which for my time playing was amazing. These days at 3 weeks of hard playing like i did a newbie can be seeing skills at around 60+. GOOD. Unless they join a guild right away it takes a while for a newbie to get any type of RP so all they have left is to train while they learn the world and there are just not enough places to train when your low leveled. I mean sure people still take you troll hunting but i remember watching TV and trying to click my assist <insert uber char's name here> f-key before whatever it was we were hunting was dead. I was lucky to get a hit or two in. You can have 100+ skill in combat and something still kill you easily(again good).

My char is completely focus on combat and while yes he gets strong quickly or quicker them most, just for training him in more then one style of combat has slowed him down more then a person specializing in just one.

This is specializing with an average of 5 hours online, each day

0-40 Very Fast two weeks maybe three
40-60 still fast maybe another two weeks
60-80 slows down and skills start getting stuck but if you still VERY specialized 2-3 weeks
80+ slows down 1-3 ++s a week if your lucky and then it could get stuck for a while, this is assuming your still very specialized and have no antis or not that many skills to spread the boni.

my char is 40 days old, a third of the 40days probably doing nothing but training and he is reaching the last level, he is still far from "uber" if there is such a thing in this game (i don't think there is), if he had joined the scribes and learned to read and write it would have taken him twice as long to reach his level. RP aside only around 60+ skills did i feel my char was strong enough to really begin to explore and enjoy the world.

The system allows newbies to enjoy the world faster, but as i've been reading this post i've realized that, its also prevent alot of things people did before, such as guild jumping which gave people the ability to become good with alot of skills. So its not as easy to become shao-lin-priests as it might have been in the past, or be good at alot of things ex. combat and be a spell caster(only scrolls right now) like a certain female elf that seems to be good at everything :wink: . I re-read the old in-game posts and found that it also stated that it might not as be as easy to become a uber warrior priest either, you'll either be a better priest or a better warrior so becoming like Tarlon is might to be even harder to achieve(at least i think it should :twisted: ). Stilgar is right though as time passes and you begin learning more skills or skills that anti your current ones, you'll notice it will slow down more and more. Therefore enjoy the fast training while it lasts :P

Basically think the skill system is fine, even the teaching level, all i'd like to see is more benifits to those that take the time to specialize in one thing other then just learning it faster.
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#15 Post by tessa » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:08 am

I think it should stay as is. It's bad enough now having month-old chars with better skills than my year old one.

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#16 Post by tannorath » Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:19 am

I see that the general opinion is to let the things as they are, and i will respect that! However, i would like to speak my mind on this matter, before shutting up and go with the flow:

Alot of you are complaining that the newer characters improve their skills alot faster then the old ones did, moustly because the new combat system and the boni distribution!

ITS CALLED PROGRESS!!!

In my opinion the new system is FAR superior to the old one! Its more realistic and gives alot more liberty to a character in folowing his goals in a natural way! Why i say natural?

In the old system characters used guild-jumping in order to master everything! That was unnatural because the guilds were not ment that way! Nor was ment for a character to become good at everything!

In the current system, YES a newbie can improve faster in fighting, but thats only an illusion! He will improve faster if he chooses to practice ONLY fighting! The second he starts to learn how to read, speak more languages, gather herbs, craft or do something else except fighting, his speed of improvement will lower, and the more he diversifies his interests, the more will lower! Trust me, i know, because my character has many interests and my speed of improvement is not at all high, but i am not complaining, its the path I CHOUSED!
In the end, the skill distribution of a certain character will respect alot more the character's interests and actions then it did before! That is why i think the current system is alot better then the old one!

Another point i want to make is the fact that stats have a great influence on skills! Tessa complained that one-month old characters have similar skills compared with her one year old character! Surely your character has alot better stats and i am sure THAT makes a big difference! You guys sure notice that difference when you die, and even though your skills remain the same, you see a difference when fighting the same monters you were fighting before.

And now, returning to the subject of this thread:

Everybody pretty much agree that for a newbie its alot easier to get to around 60 skill levels, right? Now, what harm would do to let someone with skills around 40 or so to teach his buddy that has his skills around 10 for example? Would it make it that much of a difference skillwise? I think not! It would make a bigger difference from a social point of view, helping newbies get to know eachother better, giving them the oportunity to help eachother, maybe making some money while doing it, so also helping the economy.

Now, for all of you who are afraid that teaching would lead to a skill inflation, and newbies getting to to 100 skills in no time: in order for that to happend, you would need a teacher with 80+ skills and very high teaching, so its already implemented codewise! The beauty of things is that players can control it! You see a teacher with 100 skills teaching every newbie? Just deal with it IC! No reasons for the Coders to put unnecessary limits when things can be perfectly dealed with IC by us, players.

Ok, i am done :lol:

I don't know how come i am the only one that sees things this way, but HEY, we are not the same and that a good thing! 8)

I would like to thank everybody for voting and pretty much speaking up his mind, and i will see you all in Geas.

poTannorath

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#17 Post by Delia » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:29 am

The certain female elf became very good at everything just being a Legio, btw ;) ( Legio was nice *sob* ) and the only new skills after changing guilds have been a couple of newbie-shao skills.
I'm not sure if I had it easy back then...I just did very diverse things and consequently many of my skills rised a bit by bit, Delia is 67 days old btw, in case anyone wonders. I don't see that much change with my char after the change, I just happen to get more diverse improves now, like voice, acrobatics, fencing, sword, spear.( believe me...during my last 6 months or more as a legio...i didn't get even one combat related improve! )
I see the new system as a really good one, so no need changing it, unless the lightning fast newbie learning speed needs to be addressed, but I don't necessarily see it that way, and who says you can't stop doing the things you do and start doing something else? In a sense "redistributing" your bonis.
Well in any case, all thumbs up to the wizzes!

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