Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

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lanyara
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Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#1 Post by lanyara » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:37 pm

Right now they are very inactive, and have been since quite some time.

Other than PvP, it is really very hard for them to do anything right now. But if they can only do PvP anyway, why not boost them somehow.

That said, the general idea of this thread is to throw in some ideas that may help Sathos in one way or the other:

- overpower slay miracle. Also modify it a bit, with a small chance to instantly kill even strong characters.

- Another mount type for Sathos:

Sathos should have a way to get combat mounts. Wargs may be useful for moving but why not have them ride Sathos on nightmares or something else? Give them a difficult, expensive ritual to get to nightmares OR some other way to animate something, and have an undead mount. (If it is an undead mount, it could work only for some time before the bones crumble to dust again. Or, it could drain some mana as long as this is active.)

And by the way, mounts should tire, except for undead mounts.

Right now mounts don't tire at all, which is odd.

- A new undead type that can function as a power source. The more undeads raised that way, the stronger the miracles of the Satho cleric. Should not be *too* much, but significant enough. Perhaps have these undead types only work for Evren worshippers ... this could encourage Sathos to kill more.
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ganandorf
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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#2 Post by ganandorf » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:43 am

I don't think theres anything wrong with them. They just don't seem to have active players. I don't play because I'm lazy, and I don't find the game interesting anymore. I just check out the forum once in a while.
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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#3 Post by Zehren » Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:11 am

I don't think there is any great imbalance when it comes to combat for Sathonites,
but rather that the difficulty lies in numbers.

Good is easier and more social, the more goodies, the easier.
More goodies, worsen situation for evils, less evils, less evils = less interesting due to fewer to plan torturing and bathing in the powdered bones of the innocents with, less evils.
Vicious circle.

I once attempted make a sathonite cleric, but
the waiting time took freakishly long... So no sathonite cleric.
The 'decidedly evil, strong enough to train without venturing into candyland,
yet still not a cleric and the dreadmaster being rather inactive' stage is not particularly fun or exciting.

Also, as Abharsair stated somewhere: Fewer sathonites = individually stronger, more sathonites = individually weaker. Balance and whatnot.
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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#4 Post by Olrane » Wed Nov 10, 2010 12:02 pm

Gonna have to go with a "trust the Devs" position here. I'm so glad that this game isn't a buff/nerf festival based on whining (I hear WoW had some troubles like this?), and instead there's usually a reason to change something other than current playerbase considerations, which will always be in flux anyway.

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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#5 Post by ganandorf » Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:23 pm

I had no problems with how it worked when I played. With some smarts and a good setup I was once able to kill 3 clerics and 2 crusaders on my own, it was a good day and shows sathos already have great potential.

One thing that I don't mind bitching about though is watchtowers. I've said it before and I'll say it again, considering how small the map is, considering how long it takes to get from one side of the map to the other, and considering that crusaders already have pretty awesome mounts, they seem out of place. Crusaders get to keep an eye on all the main movement channels in the game, seriously elevating them to world police status, and i think they're lame as hell. I don't care about the shooting arrows part, its the scouting that really grinds my gears.
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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#6 Post by Olrane » Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:41 am

Agree with poGanon here. Most NPC scouting/intel is really lame and feels like it's there just to make doing bad things very difficult. Watchtowers suck and the inexplicable 'stolen' tag that applies to items sucks*. I really like honest-to-goodness PC patrolling etc. though, and I wish that real life and playerbase considerations didn't make things like the watchtowers an apparent necessity.

*Could thread derail more, but it seems pointless and I don't think it will be changed.

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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#7 Post by Avisa » Thu Nov 11, 2010 3:48 pm

I disagree with the proposed changes to the Sathos.

Edit:
I suppose I should stop being lazy and elaborate a little bit.

I don't feel that the solution for Sathos 'not having much to do besides pvp' would be 'make them stronger at pvp, to counteract the "smaller" number'. Balancing the game based on active participation in certain guilds would be a long and grevious process.

Perhaps something that might be more of a solution would be to encourage more of the playerbase into the northern areas or more quests that might appeal to the more evil population that don't have access to some cities, etc. And even the latter part of that isn't a long-term fix. It has to be more than "I have to win battles by game mechanics in order to have fun".

Buffing guilds as a whole so they can 'pvp' more easily if they are in a solo situation I don't feel will ever be the answer. There's always going to be issues. There's also plenty of arguments that have come into the past of giving them higher healing spells, etc, that haven't been approved.

You did come up with some nice, different ideas though. Kudos for that.

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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#8 Post by arxthas » Fri Nov 12, 2010 5:16 am

I would also disagree with the proposed changes for basically the same reason as Avisa.

The Sathos are hard to play, surely. It is good that there is resistance to them. I think nobody wants maniac kids running around on a spree just because they are "kewl evil".

With that said, I do think maybe the evil side is a bit too hard to play. But it also comes down to how the goodies act when they actually find a baddie. As I said in my previous note, I think a single punishment (unless there is a perma-enemy thing involved) is good enough. After that, the baddie should be able to run free without getting attacked, at least for a couple of weeks or months of OOC time. I think that attacking on sight is boring and a really unambitious RP...

Last but not least, I think except from raw force, the evils have another card they can play which is seldomly used: diplomacy and cunning. And this is something I think should be required by baddies.. I think there are people in the neutral gray area who would not mind making a few agreements and trade a bit. Of course that won't happen if you play like a psychopath who relies only on brute force. I mean, the Crusade does restrict a lot of people in what they can do, and the large part of the mass might not honestly be so happy about it. So some innocent undetactable aid from them is for example an option, given that you have something to offer them back. Getting yourself an informant or someone to look out for attacks or just tell you what's going on.. It's just one way. I can think of a few more, but it's really the bad guys task =)

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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#9 Post by lanyara » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:52 pm

the inexplicable 'stolen' tag that applies to items sucks*.
I agree. It has no IC basis. NPCs far away from the "crime scene" could never ICly find out that an item is stolen or not. I wonder if there could be another solution for this. I guess the current solution is done because someone could steal from shop A and sell at shop B in another area, and could just permanently repeat doing so? So the solution may be crappy IC, but needed to
prevent characters from becoming too rich too easily?


But back to the thread, I see that most don't want stronger Sathos.
Fair enough I guess. :)
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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#10 Post by Zehren » Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:31 am

lanyara wrote:
the inexplicable 'stolen' tag that applies to items sucks*.
I agree. It has no IC basis. NPCs far away from the "crime scene" could never ICly find out that an item is stolen or not. I wonder if there could be another solution for this. I guess the current solution is done because someone could steal from shop A and sell at shop B in another area, and could just permanently repeat doing so? So the solution may be crappy IC, but needed to
prevent characters from becoming too rich too easily?


But back to the thread, I see that most don't want stronger Sathos.
Fair enough I guess. :)
I want a stronger sathonite cleric guild, but I don't think the solution is making the individual sathonites stronger. :P
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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#11 Post by Delmon » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:05 pm

When I was playing my sathos it was alot of fun. It's alittle annoying when other sathos dont take their part as seriously as you'd like in terms of wanting to survive and such, but overall my experience as an evil was great. I've snuck on now and then but honestly, I don't have any time for geas because of school. But in the future I'm sure I will.

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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#12 Post by lanyara » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:39 pm

All Satho clerics don't seem to have a lot of time to play ;-)
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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#13 Post by Skragna » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:09 pm

I'd play a Sathonite cleric... but I can never seem to find any. I'd say, at the least, if someone shackles something to one of the rocks, an echo of some sort should alert Sathonite PC's. Or perhaps even allow them to create crosses similar to the Crusade's watchtowers, in that they can be built/destroyed, and allow anyone to use them to gain favour with Sathonys, which will facilitate evil characters who want to be evil, without choking away all the good characters.

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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#14 Post by Avisa » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:35 am

The echo to the chaining of use of their crosses would make sense through gameplay, I think. I like that idea.

For Satho priests though, the need for 'portable crosses' though really isn't needed though.

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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#15 Post by dragan » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:49 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but right now the only way for "newbies" to gain the favour of Sathonys is due to the shrine in Asador or a Satho preaching to them. So without access to Asador you cannot believe in Sathonys. Think that is wrong. There should be a shrine that can be accessed by everyone. And the echo to believers idea, when someone is about to sacrifice something at one of the crosses sounds really good. So it should also be possible for believers to assist in the sacrifice. Think right now it is only possible for clerics, but not sure. :)

Personally I would not object to that everybody can shackle something to the existing crosses and perform a sacrifice. A non cleric can surely find out of how to shackle something to the cross upside down and then cut the throat to let the blood flow out. This should return some favour. Of course not the same amount as if a cleric performs the ritual, but it should return some favour.

Due to IC reasons that I will not reveal here, the Sathos are currently also quite limited in their options of spreading havoc.

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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#16 Post by Avisa » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:18 pm

Eh.. I don't think they should be able to 'assist' in the same form as clerics can, but perhaps if you rest, like when you preach you could get 'credit' for observing.

Also, I could endore a 'shrine' somewhere in the tundra outside of Asador, but I disagree with the non-Cleric sacrificing. And there's no way there would an endorsement of a Satho shrine anywhere on Elvandar/Arborea lands and west Amward is pretty damn Lilith oriented.

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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#17 Post by lanyara » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:53 pm

There should be a shrine that can be accessed by everyone. And the echo to believers idea, when someone is about to sacrifice something at one of the crosses sounds really good
Yes!

Now one should just find a place outside Asador for it ... )
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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#18 Post by Skragna » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:16 pm

Somewhere in the tundra, clearly... perhaps south of the Tower?

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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#19 Post by ferranifer » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:26 am

* Arborea city sewers or a dark back alley. Gasp, hidden city cult.
* Inside the massive pile of bones at the bottom of the Arborean cross.
* Behind/inside the thilden valley. Hey, this might even double back as a newbie entry point for Satho wannabes.
* At the forest at the bottom of Amward, can't remember the name right now, the one with the vittras and the skeletons.

You could also add a ring bell to that altar, which pings the Satho line through Chango or whatever, so followers have a way to contact the Priesthood. "<LINE> Chango: A so and so female elf has pressed made me aware of her presence at the Arborean shrine".

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Re: Ideas to revitalize the Satho clerics

#20 Post by lanyara » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:30 pm

Good ideas. Listen to PO Ferranifer.

Implement!!!
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