Arborean Culture

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fernao
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Arborean Culture

#1 Post by fernao » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:56 am

I would like to know if it is possible to start changing part of the Arborean culture through player efforts.

The reason behind this question is the fact that some players, including me, try to get some changes under way, such as tshahark treatment amoungst others, and get pounded IC for the code that exists, the mistreatement of the tshaharks or of Volog by the guards.

If changes are not wanted in that area, then there will no longer be a reason to get insulted for how things are, as this is quite frustrating, getting insulted or yelled at for stuff that you have no control over.

In this context I would like to quote from the tshahark race description on the homepage, emphasis added by me:
Now that their population is growing again and the human kind has forgotten their hatred of the tshahark, they are roaming the world again and can be found nearly everywhere.
I'ld also like to add that the homepage offers no hint that Tshaharks are disliked in Arborea. According to the background info it would rather be the tshaharks that would be angry at the humans because of the past hunting and humans being fearful over them.
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lanyara
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Re: Arborean Culture

#2 Post by lanyara » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:24 am

I agree completely with your post. Players should get a say in these matters - try to contact Meribo. :)
Now that their population is growing again and the human kind has forgotten their hatred of the tshahark, they are roaming the world again and can be found nearly everywhere.
You are also absolutely right, it contradicts the official story line for the background.

Edit:

What should be kept in mind is that the changes were added over time.
For instance, the tshahark worker on the docks seems to be a fairly recent addition, whereas the anti-frog sign is a very, very old oddition.
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luminier
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Re: Arborean Culture

#3 Post by luminier » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:22 pm

As I have discovered in the past Fernao, it's well within every characters right IC to grief other characters IC. People have annoyed Luminier, and in turn, me, for much time. This happens in real life all the time, and even in real life some people are powerless to change it. That doesn't mean however people who are saying the treatment of Volog is wrong or the treatment of tshaharks is wrong have to stop bothering the Judges about it. If you sign up to be Judge, there are certain things you have to take flak for.

Not only that, it shouldn't be annoying to you as a player. Everything that happens IC is just that, IC drama. It is certainly alright to want to try and change it and feel free to talk to the wizards to do so. However I don't think it is fair to go OOC and tell us to stop doing something IC knowing all what I have told you now.
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glasp
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Re: Arborean Culture

#4 Post by glasp » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:25 pm

Hi Fernao,

Player efforts are always welcome, but in this particular case I question the reason given. Geas is a dark, medieval world where not everyone gets treated well. Like in any medieval european city, you would find those who are worse off, like beggars, prostitutes, etc (or tshaharks) - and the general Arborean would probably just shrug his arms and tell you that's the way it is and continue with her life. Not that they would not care (of course the tshaharks would be a different story for an Arborean), but simply that they have different ideas of life than a modern person would have and that they would be busy with their own life, etc.

This is a world were the guys who burn people alive on a cross are the good ones that people look up to, where gods are real and much regular people have a hard life trying to survive. Many modern day values that you and I take for granted are different than those of the game, which is a part of the charm of playing. The guard's treatment of beggars or the tshahark is one of the things that identifes Arborea and Arborean values. So it would be very difficult to change something that is so firmly a part of history and Arborean way of life - but of course, everything is possible and the players have all the power (even if they would be of the small minority on the in-game stage). However as of now, Arborea is simply not as progressed as for example Elvandar society.

Now, what I am slightly unsure about is where you say that "getting insulted or yelled at for stuff that you have no control over" (and I hope that that is IC context). I have not followed the details of the player affarirs, but... no players were involved in this improvement and I would say it would be an extremely difficult case to pinpoint Fernao or any other character as 'responsible' behind this reality. Of course, some might do it just to challenge/annoy you, but that is a different matter.

And the clerics of Asrals were tossed out of Arborea long ago, and they could not rebuild their temple inside of the city - so the only reason I could imagine that someone thinks so is out of confusion with the historical relation. That relation was indeed strong, but there are of course reasons why only the shrine was kept. If anything, I would guess that Asrals and Arborean after that was quite frosty. Today, I would not know. But the world has changed and is changing: sometimes societies pick up old habits, sometimes they come up with inventions. But I am trying to say is that just because Fernao is a prominent cleric of Asral does not mean that he is somehow responsible for what happens in the Arborean economy. This implementation is entirely done by wizards. It is certainly NOT the intention of the wizards to make anyone responsible by assigning them guilt somehow.

So my conclusion would be that perhaps someone is doing his best to drive you nuts? (But if you mean that this insulting was OOC - please, contact the player arch immediately ["help admin"]) My general advice to prove your innocence would then be something along the Arborean saying, "resolve it with your fists" ;-)

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Re: Arborean Culture

#5 Post by Delmon » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:56 pm

You have to loosely follow the code. For example, a satho could team with a taniel but the code sort of guides us not to.

Mistreatment of tshaharks is coded in the game in arborea. You offer a contradiction but no reason to not just change the homepage accordingly

Now give the wizards reason to change the code other than you want it to be changed to fit your character's IC reasons for change

Alternatively, you could continue to be an advocate for tshaharks accepting that the code forces you to be a minority and that could just be your "thing," like nogem and boreal, naga and anti-tshahark, and anyone who says backstabbing is an acceptable practice.

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Re: Arborean Culture

#6 Post by Ritor » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:13 pm

Many of us as players have the values of a modern western civilizations. That's why racism, illiteracy, bigotry, superstitions feel so odd for us. But in a medieval settings, it's actually very real and normal.

Yes, being nice to everyone will help someone in their play. More beings will help you or be non-hostile to you, you'll have less chance to antagonize people, and more chance to get them to join you, and so on and so on. But is it part of their character to be nice to everyone?

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Re: Arborean Culture

#7 Post by lanyara » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:17 am

You offer a contradiction but no reason to not just change the homepage accordingly
@Delmon, but you are assuming here that it is the homepage that needs to be changed. Why not the other way around i.e. the code in the game that should be changed? You neither offer a reason to not just change the code in game accordingly to the homepage.

Whatever the solution, it is a discrepancy right now.
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Re: Arborean Culture

#8 Post by Veriya » Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:11 pm

Ritor brings up a great point, to the credit of our theme. However, as far as I can tell, another great point of Geas is that players have and do influence the general trends of culture, economy etc in the world. This doesn't mean the code should or can be ignored entirely, as that's just the same as being outright insane IRL.

Ritor brings up how it is natural for us 2011-ites to scorn racism and bigotry, while the theme clearly accepts it as commonplace and normal. I agree with this entirely, and even in all my IC attempts to question these traditions, Ive never expected nor truly wanted support. They are actions that my character feels righteous through her perceptions and not necessarily largely, but admittedly partially influenced by my modern IRL upbringing. (Asral being taken by /me/ as a sort of aggressive, Machiavellian sense of Buddhist doctrine; Manifest Destiny meets honour and compassion...)

Geas oftentimes represents a classic clash between the political forces of the world to me, with your true conservative Tanielites clinging to the hope that everyone will come to their way, the Sathonytes playing your radical conservatives like you see all over the real world. You then have your hippie Gwennites proposing ideas like love and blind compassion, ideas that have begun to take hold in modern liberal life. In the center are the Zen-loving Zhakrinites and your more Confucian Asralites swinging for the moderates, while the Lilithians play Anarchy and the Evrenites play moderate conservatives/the more reasonable, accepting religious right.

My point in saying all that is this; Yes, it is a medieval theme, but just like in those times, as literature and education become more widely spread, so should the more complex and commonly accepted social norms of more recent times. To the counterpoint, however, Geas is not Earth... The races actually ARE different, and to some extent, some actually are "superior" in one way or another, so our modern views are somewhat ignorant to the reality in-game oftentimes...

Barring a wizard actually stating the facts clearly, however, I think player actions can and in fact, do, alter the game regularly. Likely in ways we rarely even take notice of...

A good example is the slave appearing shortly after our first attempts to speak modern reasoning against the idea of slavery... It reminds us that even five players are still the minority against an entire city. It also points to the fact, however, that more influential characters actually grab notice with what they say and do. This, to me, suggests that even though five player's voices do not equal five hundred NPC's voices, the voice of a Lord Marshall, Avatar, Archbishop, Judge, elder or renowned Skald does equal more than simply 'one' to the staff.

So... Despair not!
Geas is a game, and Geas loves you. Play it, and perhaps attempt your political ideal or even better, one other than your own.
Try to change the world, even if it seems hopeless, cause that's life, and that's what Geas seems to seek to mimic...
Just with a cooler setting and less assholes than in RL. :P
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Zehren
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Re: Arborean Culture

#9 Post by Zehren » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:33 pm

Veriya wrote:You then have your hippie Gwennites proposing ideas like love and blind compassion,
:twisted:


(couldn't resist :( )
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Ritor
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Re: Arborean Culture

#10 Post by Ritor » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:48 am

Here I thought Asralites were more similar to the vikings.

Not the stereotype (graah, berserk) vikings. But to the 'The thing', more expanded democracy then in Greece, self governed, society. Though admittedly, there was a lot of Confucius concepts with them as well.

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Re: Arborean Culture

#11 Post by isengoo » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:44 am

The village in How to Train Your Dragon is almost exactly how I imagine Arborea, except flat.

fernao
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Re: Arborean Culture

#12 Post by fernao » Tue Jan 18, 2011 1:26 pm

isengoo wrote:The village in How to Train Your Dragon is almost exactly how I imagine Arborea, except flat.
So, where did you hide my pet dragon, eh? :twisted:
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