Hunting by strong monsters

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glorfindel
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Hunting by strong monsters

#1 Post by glorfindel » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:01 pm

Hello,

I just wanted to rise another thing, maybe it's a bug maybe not, but I would rather see a different solution for the problems encountered with being hunted by npc's.

I'll just give two examples I've seen recently:

1. A giant zombie undead hunted me eight rooms straight across the forest. A medium sized char would've had a 90% death rate with such a creature (undead only is an example here, replace with other big, hunting creature). Also it did then not return to it's orginal place but did stay somewhere within the forest.

2. A group of eight orcs chased me around for several rooms (did not count them back then, but it also were more then three at least).

I do generally think this as a bit inadequate, as it usually means that if your enemy does hunt, you'll be faced with very close call. Though I do not wish to nerf the sathonite creatures in particular, I do believe it's in their interest as well that their creatures return to where they placed them, as they are often strategically placed.

So here'd be my suggestions:

- Adjust hunting in general so that the maximum hunting distance is three rooms.
I think this would be adequately enough to prevent hit and run and still allow the
char some chance to get away.
- Make the creatures unwield their weapons while they run after you. This at least
allows for some breather while getting away, though that might as well not be
wanted.
- For sathonite undead, consider if hunting really is the option. I would maybe instead suggest something like a 'heightened sense' where an undead can sense into directions it can 'look' (not buildings) and if it sees a 'good person' (aura vision, dunno), it'll rush there to attack the person. If such is implemented, remove hunting features all together. In my eyes this feature is more powerful then mere hunting, but it has the same effect, ... make hit and run less effective. For a player it'd would mean it'd have to get away 2 rooms from a satho undead before being 'save' to aid/rest/etc.

Those are only my opinion on these things I post them here to make them open for suggestion and rise the issue I see with the current thing. For me max hunting distance of 'three' rooms would be a fine solution.

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luminier
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Re: Hunting by strong monsters

#2 Post by luminier » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:47 pm

The only problem is is that it is a part of "Sathonite Tactics" to construct zombies to chase after people if they run by. Sathonites control areas through use of undead and the zombie chase mechanic is a very powerful one for the Sathonites.

If they were coded to "look" and "go hunt" they would leave the ground that was prepared for them and essentially suicide themselves to go kill something. Then again, they are zombies, they aren't the brightest.

Attacking certain creatures like orcs, hobgoblins, sathonite zombies should be dangerous IMO. Even for old characters like Glorfindel, death should be a constant RP consideration (it's even easier to RP when that death is being experienced frequently ;) ). If something is known to chase you, you should really be careful and make sure you can get the dog before the dog gets you.

Having said that, if other people like Glorfindels idea, I do too. I am merely expressing my opinion on how it is dangerous and should be taken as dangerous.
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fernao
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Re: Hunting by strong monsters

#3 Post by fernao » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:53 pm

It has been stated dozens of times, but just for the argument, Sathonites cannot directly control what type of undead is raised.

As for the hunting distance, well, 2 rooms is more than enough heavily loaded, if you are not encoumbered you can run from a zombie or orc all the way from Elvandar to Arborea.

And then again, the fact that certain monsters hunt is used by others as part of their tactics. So everything has its pros and cons.

Unless the undeads were placed inside indoor rooms where you cannot look into, a simple look ahead before walking saves a LOT of trouble.

To make things short, I don't actually see a problem there.
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glorfindel
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Re: Hunting by strong monsters

#4 Post by glorfindel » Tue Mar 20, 2012 1:58 pm

luminier wrote: Attacking certain creatures like orcs, hobgoblins, sathonite zombies should be dangerous IMO. Even for old characters like Glorfindel, death should be a constant RP consideration (it's even easier to RP when that death is being experienced frequently ;) ). If something is known to chase you, you should really be careful and make sure you can get the dog before the dog gets you.
Well, if you see it, and that's the problem I have with the endless chasing at it is now. You run around somewhere, it could be elvandar forest for example. Let's not talk about zombies, but about the host of eight orcs that did not return back to the tower. So you're a middle-sized character, taking a stroll of herb searching. You have not looked into the room you move it, bang, you have 8 orcs on your head, wielding two handed axes. You realize your peril, you run for your life. You'll not get away because they'll chase you right to the gates of elvandar where'll you bleed out. That's my problem with the current hunting code. I merely mentioned the zombie's because it happens with them too :)

Sure it's a very powerful thing for the sathos, that's why I tried to come up with something equally (or rather in my eyes more powerful) then the current hunting code and opened it up to the public.

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luminier
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Re: Hunting by strong monsters

#5 Post by luminier » Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:13 pm

Glorfindel the chasing is only "endless" if you double back on a path that the undead has already been on. If you run in a straight line away, they only chase about 3-4 rooms. If you run north into the undead, then south, then back north then back south over and over it actually never stops chasing you.
fernao wrote:It has been stated dozens of times, but just for the argument, Sathonites cannot directly control what type of undead is raised.
I am well aware of this fact having played a Sathonite myself. However you are wrong it is possible to tweak the conditions such that you can control it somewhat. Being an accomplished undead creator I am sure you know what I mean.
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Zehren
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Re: Hunting by strong monsters

#6 Post by Zehren » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:31 am

deleted.
Last edited by Zehren on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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glorfindel
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Re: Hunting by strong monsters

#7 Post by glorfindel » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:31 am

Ok,

ignore this thread. I don't think I could get across what I wished to state.

I still wish to clarify one thing:

- I don't care if a high level zombie hunts the shit out of you, as long it returns to where it was originally created (which it didn't), but I don't like that they can be easily separated from their supporters, allowing an easier way to dispatch them, which was partly why I suggested a different approach of _all_ undead going towards a goodie nearby. As luminier said, facing undead of that magnitude should be dangerous. I did not point to the sathonites and say 'nerf them, now.'.

It seems to me, it came only off as complaining. Sorry for that. I think I'll refrain from posting such suggestions in the future.
Last edited by glorfindel on Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Phelan
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Re: Hunting by strong monsters

#8 Post by Phelan » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:40 am

The issue with the zombies is, that they can get lost while trying to hunt. When that happens, you get away and the zombie stays where it is, since it doesn't find the way back.

If you managed to flee without the zombie getting lost, then it returns to its original place.

Further, it can happen that the hunting zombie vanishes. Actually, it happens quite often, though I am not sure if it is supposed to happen.

As I said, they are supposed to return to their original spot when you manage to flee, but they can get lost. But I think that is a general issue, not only for zombies. I have seen hunting orcs outside the tower, or hobbos or halforcs where they are not supposed to be.

glorfindel
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Re: Hunting by strong monsters

#9 Post by glorfindel » Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:49 am

Phelan wrote: As I said, they are supposed to return to their original spot when you manage to flee, but they can get lost. But I think that is a general issue, not only for zombies. I have seen hunting orcs outside the tower, or hobbos or halforcs where they are not supposed to be.
Yes, that's a general issue. I'll write a bug report in the game tonight to make aware of the creature not returning.

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Allurana
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Re: Hunting by strong monsters

#10 Post by Allurana » Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:05 pm

It definitely happens in cases of special exits like 'enter/climb <object>' or the like. NPCs aren't coded to do that, so instead they'll sit at the closest spot possible.

Areas that require location sense may also affect their ability to navigate, but I haven't had enough experience with that.

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