Tshahark Intelligence

[Osiron]

A Tshahark can not become a scribe or mage. But the other guilds are be open for them. But some position or ranks can be forbidden.

Also the taniel clergy has entry blocked tshaharks.

[fernao]

So have the Sathonites.

[ganandorf]

They are a lesser race and should be treated as such.

This is not the modern world where "racial rights" matter.

[Zehren]

They are a lesser race and should be treated as such.

This is not the modern world where "racial rights" matter.

+5

[anglachel]

I can confirm that tshahark are /not/ allowed to become alchemists. Skragna's been trying for a few IG years now.

Seems i miss the Alchemist guild and the Taniel,Clerics guild, too.

[ewelyn]

I agree that tshaharks are best denied from mentally demanding guilds, like commanding, praying or mixing potions, for roleplay and power balance reasons. I am just guessing now, but I believe the very idea is that they should be exactly that dumb. Saying that it is unrealistic is sort of moot - if they aren't, then they will still be made to be, because that is the idea.

The problem is that most tshahark seek to the regular established guilds with an expectancy to be able to advance (even in guilds where mental ability is required). It just is not clear enough, during character race selection, that this is how the race is restricted (and that it really matters). I guess most people expect they will be playing a character with worse mental stats and better physical stats, but that is just half of it.

This does not mean that your RP options are reduced, just since you do not have guild powers, it just means that they are different. There is a natural conflict in their very existance, so you have good chances of playing e.g. a grunt soldier or rebel slave. Those are very interesting additional roles for the game, and I think it would enrichen the world if more players were prepared to play them (I disagree that it would mean they must be powerless - even a small band of rebellion slaves could be a real force).

However, it is true that there could be more code-supported options for tshaharks. I can not see the any bad in if there were more alternative guilds for tshaharks, where they would be accepted and have the ability to lead? Maybe some primitive barbarian/nomad type of hunters? Or lilith's foot soldiers (maybe internal killing is OK)? Other roles could maybe include non-combat oriented ones, such as free workers or mercenaries for rich merchants/craftsmen. Well, I am sure there are more/better ideas...

[luminier]

I find that instead of roleplaying, people who play tshaharks become upset OOC (and then it shows IC) and just tend to join a different guild where advancement is possible.... IE Asralites... Crusaders... Rangers?.... Shaolin.

So while I agree it makes sense to deny access to some guilds, this should be made known right from the get go...

If people expect one thing and it turns out "Oh no no, this is the way we do things" we set them up for disappointment and I don't think that is how people want to drop hours of time into a character just to get screwed over.

[Zehren]

I loved the tshahark retardedness I saw when I began playing.
LITAGO LITAGO IS YES YES.
LITAGO STRONG YES YES WHO LITTLE MANTHING IS?
LITAGO EAT BOARS DOES YES DOES.

(Zehren's IG/IC book about the tshahark language is built around grammar made up from those sort of sentences, remembered as best as I can.)

[Allurana]

I'd like to see a disclaimer for those that pick tshaharks in the char creation system that tells them the kinds of limitations they should expect from the race. I suspect part of the problem is that some players don't find out that tshaharks get the short end of the stick in several things until after they've already established their tshahark characters and grown sentimentally attached to them, which makes being told "no" rather disheartening and frustrating at that point.

[Skragna]

At this point, I've given up on Skragna being the way I wanted him to be at first, and I've changed what I wanted out of him.

[Zehren]

In regards to tshaharks giving the wrong impression upon character creation: change the tshahark help file.

Old:
Welcome stranger!
You want to learn more about the proud race of tshahark?
Well, here we go. Once they had been humans, but during a
cruel war ages ago, when the humans nearly had been defeated
by a strange race, a couple of mages tried to create a new
race that possibly would be the last chance of mankind to
survive. So they started a magical ritual with the aim of
creating a new race that could stand the threat and help
mankind to overcome it. The result had been the tshahark,
the mightiest fighters in this realm. They are a combination
of saurians and humans. Their saurian blood gives them strength
and endurance while their human blood makes them somewhat
intelligent. Well, the tshahark expelled this strange,insect-like
race from Forostar and mankind survived the war. But due to
the fact that the tshahark are different to the humans, they
always had been feared and hated. Generations after the war,
mankind had forgotten the deeds of the tshahark and started to
hunt them down wherever they had been seen. Nearly exterminated,
but not yet beaten, the survivors fled into some mountains where
they took an abandoned castle in possession. They restored the
castle and made it their home. Now that their population is
growing again and the human kind forgot about the tshahark they
are roaming the world again and can be found nearly everywhere.
Still they return to the old castle at least one time every year.
Well, this is more or less a short overview of the history of
this proud race. But if you are travelling through Geas, you will
surely find out more about this race and their story.

Pseudonew:

Tshaharks tshaharks be does yes. Tshaharks maked by mages long ago yes does yes. Tshaharks like eats boars lots yes yes yes. Boars. Also me be tshahark yes. And me be giant. Humans tiny. Can pat on head! Halflings MORE TINY. Tshahark has scales does yes. Also tails does yes. Me smart tshahark. Lotsa brains. Can count to three.

[korsario]

Tshaharks,

I talk from my experience being one, and how I've played my character during all these years.

My RP have changed a bit with the time, while my char got more experienced and according with his better mentals.

At the start he was _really_ dumb. Of the type: Hungry! huh? Me Crunch! Boarzss for me! *scream*! But with the years he was able of be guildmaster of a guild of warriors(legion), Crussader, war-bard, WarCleric (twice) and even Judge!

Right now, my char is bright and wise for a tshahark (statlevel talking). He has joined the war-clerics, and got a decent mentals. Still he is not the brightest, and keep being dumb enough for the standards, and getting really old that doesnt help.

My point is, they will never be the smartest around, but they are not stupid. They are cunning, mainly on combat and hunting, as the predators they are. They have the nature of war in their veins. But their combat tactics are not the smartest,
they must be the berserkers. Straight to the objective. If there is a wall? Destroy it, brutal force.

Its harder than you can think to RP them, try not to be too smart, but also dumb enough.

I think that those trying to RP them more smart than they should are doing it wrong.
You can still be smart in their way, and not being easily fooled.

My biggest challengue was becomming judge, and of Arborea! He did it to try to change things there with tshaharks.
He needed an assistant to change, modify laws, and write notes, and secretly learn to read and write.
The whole experience kinda failed, and he got bad headaches from it. Still, that was kinda fun.

Those thinking they are lower beings... are wrong and will receive a head crunch.

I hope this was helpfull.

PO: Korsario.

[luminier]

Thanks Kors, I think everyone is pretty much in agreement with you.

Every character should be playing "dumb" (if you get my meaning) at character creation and it just so happens that tshaharks are dumber than others.

If your stats or experience are such that your character should be smarter then I certainly don't think it's unreasonable you have your character get smarter in his/her RP.

I do agree though that there should be some sort of disclaimer at the tshahark creation to prevent Skragna situations from happening again. I am sure it has happened in the past but Skragna is the most recent situation I can think of, in that at creation he pretty much roleplayed a human who had been transformed into a tshahark and retained all of his human knowledge, until I spoke to him about it OOC.

[anglachel]

In my oppion Tshaharks are not 'dumb'. Otherwise they would be not able a be good fighter. Their intelligence is a bit onesided. They have no problems to keep the the overview in crowed combat. They have no problems to calaculate the effect of their weapons. But they the lack the understanding of abstract concepts. Such like the differents value of coins.
Why is the little gold coin much more worth as the bigger brionze coins -> confuse...
They also lack of some social competence. They are trained to be a member of a defined hierarchy. On the top or at the bottom. So have they have the problem with floating social strukturs.

[luminier]

Perhaps an explanation similar to the one Anglachel gave could be provided upon character creation when someone rolls a tshahark?