The Tshahark Poll

[Brom]

I think that is what it is, a popularity contest, but it seems to be abandoning alot of rp principles set up among the players. As well i feel npcs of the city might have had a word or two to say about it, though thats not taken into consideration. A non-elf running for judge? (Not just a non-elf a Tshahark above all things? THE single stupidest race to exist short of lillithians?) and winning against an elf? That is just .... odd. Especially considering the sense of elvish pride, what reason do the elves have to sink to this? Would the queen allow it?

Now I should say, there is no fault in poAdanath here, why would he not run for judge. I am just questioning the rp surrounding voting for a tshahark judge! He IS a tshahark, though valuable, notoriously dumb!

Anyways I said my piece, I do not want to get dragged into an argument, like I see happen frequently, hopefully juts discusssion without passive aggressive tones (such as this paragraph).

[luminier]

I think I have to agree with Brom here. It's one thing IRL to win an election because you are more attractive or are better at getting votes, even if you aren't better for the job. It's a different thing when what Brom describes happens.

[Aslak]

Since IG judges are more like OOC politicans, I see little reason for them not being able to be voted into office.
That they are unsuited for the job is another things. As soon as the judges decisions reflect that lack of higher intelect and are based on simple thoughts, maybe black and white, it would be fine and could be fun.
I mean, you could get convicted for having a bad smell on you

[Rudolpho]

Well, to be fair, it's not the same as merely being unsuited to one's position. It's more like someone with Down syndrome being elected mayor of a major city. They're not going to get a majority vote in anything other than a popularity contest, which of course is what Judge elections in Forostar are. (I know; I was judge once.) They're barred from many guilds; those they are allowed into bar them from leadership positions, and as clerics their favor is hampered. I'm a bit surprised the NPC doesn't laugh in a Tshahark's face when they try to run for office. (Much worse has happened in the past when Tshaharks have tried to be judges.) Anyway, a Tshahark being elected judge reflects more on the ones doing the voting than the Tshahark. Sure a Tshahark would run for judge just as likely as they'd eat a dirty band-aid that they found on the street, but you don't vote for someone who would eat a dirty band-aid that they found on the street.

[Brom]

If Ive heard correctly, tshaharks can no longer even be part of the taniel clerics group? Considering the connection between the clerics and the law offices and ideas of elvandar, you would think they would be heavily against having a dumb judge!

[Drayn]

Unintelligent people tend to lack the ability to lie, that's a handy trait for a judge. Having a child like mentality leads you to speak what's on your mind in a rather open fashion, another very good trait for a judge. The unintelligent tend to lack initiative and prefer to do as they're told, also a good trait for a judge.

Two sides to every coin

[luminier]

It just seems strange to me that a high society of elves would let their city be judged by a tshahark no matter who that tshahark is.

Those are very good qualities for a Judge.

But I think we should be trying to roleplay in the medieval ages where people are racist unknowingly. It's a culture that shouldve been fostered from birth unless there are extenuating circumstances to lead the character to RP otherwise.

I know Adanath wouldn't be a bad judge, but Korsario or Trith wouldnt have been bad judges either and there was a giant backlash when they ran for judge in Arborea.

[Drayn]

Two candidates...one follows Taniel. That's about as far as clerical political scrutiny goes

[luminier]

Apparently not if they don't let tshaharks into their guild

[Brom]

Ah well, I think it's terrible roleplay. And comparing elvandar (long living elven society who has been through it all) politics to real life politics is just the worst you could do.

No one else cares though, doesn't effect my gameplay, so not worth the effort.

[Skragna]

Frankly, I stopped playing because there were people telling me to play my tshahark differently. That, combined with all the hate and restrictions being put on them, has really dampened my desire to play. I feel they're treated as nothing more than muscle. Literally nothing else. Just meat with a tail.

[Brom]

That's kind of what they are, isn't it?

[luminier]

Without getting too in depth about your choices while you played your tshahark, Skragna, I think you were one of the victims of starting a tshahark, not knowing how to properly RP one, then being stuck with a character that was too fleshed out to make a a believable change.

I am sorry you felt that way about your time playing a tshahark.

IMO tshaharks are instinctual beings who are pretty dumb. I imagine tshaharks being used as animals like workhorses that do the heavy lifting for humans. This should be made clear when you start a character. guidelines should probably be given for all characters... half-elves might be subject to racism by elves/humans, halflings are generally thought of as dirty thieves, dwarves are generally sour/sarcastic and rude, etc etc

[Allurana]

Frankly, I stopped playing because there were people telling me to play my tshahark differently. That, combined with all the hate and restrictions being put on them, has really dampened my desire to play. I feel they're treated as nothing more than muscle. Literally nothing else. Just meat with a tail.

This is a prime example of why I ask that there be a disclaimer when creating tshaharks that lets players know ahead of time what to expect when playing as one (restrictions from guilds, animalistic mindset, treated as a beast by some, whatever else).

I think too many people create a tshahark assuming they'll more or less be just like the other races as far as opportunity and RP goes, and find out only after putting much time, effort, and sentimental value into their characters that tshaharks are treated very much differently than the other races (not unlike darkelves).

[Skragna]

Worse than that, actually. Darkelves are actually allowed to have opinions on things and try and change them. Harks are even subject to OOC bias.

[louis]

Hmm, I do not want to involve into the "Tshahark Intelligence Discussion" yet, as I am quite undecided there.

But one thing is quite obvious for me (looking back at Korsario running for judge) - if the citizens of a town decide to _vote_ a tshahark as judge, this tshahark should become judge - paragraph. Same applies - just to offer some more examples without any comparization - to goblonoids, halflings, demons, humans, undeads, dwarves, candle-holders, elves and oil-lamps.

[Zehren]

Hmm, I do not want to involve into the "Tshahark Intelligence Discussion" yet, as I am quite undecided there.

But one thing is quite obvious for me (looking back at Korsario running for judge) - if the citizens of a town decide to _vote_ a tshahark as judge, this tshahark should become judge - paragraph. Same applies - just to offer some more examples without any comparization - to goblonoids, halflings, demons, humans, undeads, dwarves, candle-holders, elves and oil-lamps.

Now I want Arborea to vote an oil-lamp for judge

It would be the ultimate battle of wits - the tshahark vs. the oil-lamp.

[Sairina]

Now I want Arborea to vote an oil-lamp for judge

It would be the ultimate battle of wits - the tshahark vs. the oil-lamp.

As long as it is an Asralite oil-lamp...

[Allurana]

But one thing is quite obvious for me (looking back at Korsario running for judge) - if the citizens of a town decide to _vote_ a tshahark as judge, this tshahark should become judge - paragraph.

The only problem I see with this is that there have been cases in the past where wizards stepped in with events that basically said "No, we will not allow this to happen", such as lynch mobs appearing in Arborea when Trith tried to run for judge. Unless you mean to say that players are free to do whatever RP they want, but that doesn't necessarily mean there might not be consequences from wizards for certain decisions.

That being said though, I would agree that this is a situation that can be handled ICly. Protest against the Judge. Ridicule him in public with complicated math questions. Ostracize/scorn his supporters publicly. Have the council make a law forbidding tshaharks run for judge. So on and so forth. If people want a racist/prejudice world, the best place to show it is in-game, rather than on the forums.

Hmm, I do not want to involve into the "Tshahark Intelligence Discussion" yet, as I am quite undecided there.

IMO the best way to understand a tshahark is to picture the world from the eyes of an iguana. I mean, check this out:

What is the IQ of an iguana?

There is no way to measure a reptile's IQ, but Iguana keepers say that this particular species of reptile has an incredible intelligence compared to similar reptiles. They can even be "potty" trained to poop in a specified place!

Don't know about you, but that sounds like a tshahark to me.

[Delia]

IC events run by wizards can be interpreted in many ways but IMHO reading

The only problem I see with this is that there have been cases in the past where wizards stepped in with events that basically said "No, we will not allow this to happen", such as lynch mobs appearing in Arborea when Trith tried to run for judge.

as wizards stating OOCly "This here is wrong.", is off course IMHO again.

I have seen this many times that even when a wizard lets out an accidental sigh players begins to battle it out who gets to interpret this godly crumb of wisdom or just take it out as an immutable law that the one time when Volog farted when they were passing by, they must have been doing something awfully wrong.

The game world is governed by its own internal logic which I believe the wizards could be happy to show us from time to time if we just take the events as they are...events within the game world happening because the world is like that and not because the wizards are out to get YOU(specifically!).

IMHO, again.