Vote for Our Mud on TMC!
 
 
Geas Home
 
Play the Game

Magic - Questions

If it's no bug or an idea, but it's still mud-related, it goes here.

Moderator: Wizards

User avatar
Sairina
Hero
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Sairina » Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:31 am

Should high magic slowly steer you towards true godlessness as in "god none"?

Could someone specify for a clueless elf what exactly classifies as "high magic"? I suppose skald songs (and possibly potions?) are low magic, right? Are wands and scrolls high magic?

krelji
Hero
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 am

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby krelji » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:14 am

High magic is for the most part limited to Mages, though Masterscribes and Alchemists have some limited access to it. Wands and Scrolls should be considered as high magic. You're correct that skald songs, and potions would
be considered as low magic, and you might even find some who would consider miracles as low magic.
All knowledge is heresy. Yes, you heard me correctly.
It is the nature of religions to thrive on ignorance.

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2475
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Delia » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:38 am

See 'help magic' for stuff :)
"To be is to do" - Sokrates
"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

User avatar
Sairina
Hero
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Sairina » Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:09 am

Thanks krelji, thst clears it up! @Delia: I read the stuff in 'help magic', but didn't find it specific enough.

Zehren
Champion
Posts: 977
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:50 am

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Zehren » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:56 pm

Delia wrote:Question/idea

Should high magic slowly steer you towards true godlessness as in "god none"?


It's an art. Prepare to become a Gwennie.
Yeah.
8)
Drayn wrote:Zehren, the Karmassassin!

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2475
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Delia » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:30 am

Anyways, with high magic I meant guild mage magic, not scribes or alchemists using wands and scrolls. It is relatively minor and there are enouh possible consequnces for them as it is.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

krelji
Hero
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:48 am

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby krelji » Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:54 am

Delia wrote:Anyways, with high magic I meant guild mage magic, not scribes or alchemists using wands and scrolls. It is relatively minor and there are enouh possible consequnces for them as it is.

I disagree here. Alchemists and Masterscribes have access to a subset of what is available to Mages, and I don't see scrolls or wands being used by Mages as low magic devices. Generally I would draw the line on the impact something has on the flows. Magical songs, potions and miracles don't seem to have any impact on it, and thus should be considered as low magic. Spells have an impact on the flows and should be considered as high magic, even if it would require vast amount of spells at low power to influence the flows.
All knowledge is heresy. Yes, you heard me correctly.

It is the nature of religions to thrive on ignorance.

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2475
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Delia » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:02 am

The real question is what the gods think of the guild mage using magic. Priests already have some trouble of balancing both miracles and magic but should somesuch extended to the true magi as well?
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2475
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Delia » Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:07 am

I largely ask this because I have quite hard time fitting magic and different religions together as a player. How do others see it? As it might be obvious to see, I carefully lean towards the notion that the two are somewhat incompatible. I am in no haste though, to act.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

User avatar
Sairina
Hero
Posts: 434
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Sairina » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:10 am

krelji wrote:
Delia wrote:Anyways, with high magic I meant guild mage magic, not scribes or alchemists using wands and scrolls. It is relatively minor and there are enouh possible consequnces for them as it is.

I disagree here. Alchemists and Masterscribes have access to a subset of what is available to Mages, and I don't see scrolls or wands being used by Mages as low magic devices. Generally I would draw the line on the impact something has on the flows. Magical songs, potions and miracles don't seem to have any impact on it, and thus should be considered as low magic. Spells have an impact on the flows and should be considered as high magic, even if it would require vast amount of spells at low power to influence the flows.


That's exactly why I was asking, because if scrolls and wands are considered high magic and the gods dislike high magic... well, Gods don't tend to go "Well, some of it may be OK under certain circumstances, you know, carry on, little rascal!" If a God doesn't like something, then he doesn't like it, period. And his followers tend to be pretty strict about these things, too.

User avatar
Cuetlachtli
Veteran
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:12 am

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Cuetlachtli » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:30 am

I personally like the idea of Magic, while maybe not being intensely _hated_ by the Gods (like how Asrals hate Gwennies) but definitely being disliked.

I tend to think that Magic could work well, as was suggested in another thread, for followers of Lilith and Zhakrin. One being Chaos ('stealing power from the Gods'), the other Balance (I tend to condiser Magic a 'neutral' thing). Also, I believe that Dragons were Zhakrin's creation and they are somewhat 'magical' and it seems like there is something 'magical' about Pale Ones, but I am not entirely sure (and they are 'adopted' by Zhakrin or something). (I could be mistaken about both of these)

Since not all Gods are of the same mind, I could see a case where those that follow Lilith or Zhakrin might not see any effect that steers them away in high magic use. But where Followers of other Gods might have this "negative" effect (though I don't see it as a negative really, it would just force reconciliation of their actions and some RP, possibly of a faith change).

If that's not considered fair for some reason, then I'd like to see a case where Magic does cause a slow drift toward 'no god' worship. You'd either have to take more action to keep your faith....or you would have to let it go.

This could create resurrection problems, I guess.

As for the wand comments before: I don't think limiting them is really needed. It takes a long time to create them anyway, and if they aren't enhanced, they run out really quickly, and aren't always predictable. I really do think it balances itself out in this case.

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2475
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Delia » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:51 am

How much effect there is from high INT and how much other mentals count? Mainly asking where mana is concerned as it is very hard to discern how much mana you have compared to others, for example, as magic always takes flat percentage rates of mana regardless of your INT. The point being is that you do not actually have more mana to use than others even if you actually did. If this is the case, where does it all go?
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2475
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Delia » Tue May 14, 2013 1:10 am

Wands - continued

I'll use this thread as this seems suitable enough.

I was thinking that while the wands have the ready timer for both before and after their use it can still be quite much to have two wands wielded especially when both have powerful combat spells in them as they both become available for use when wielded.

Should the mage use the wand as a focus, thus only one wand could be used at a time? Starting to use a wand as a focus would activate the ready timer. Using two wands is cool though but imagine this:

Delia expects trouble:

Delia wields the wand of nuclear blast in her right hand
Delia wields the wand of potentially unfair PvP advantage in her left hand
Delia waits...
.
.
.
A gruesome masked human arrives from the north
Delia uses 1. wand
Delia uses 2. wand
Delia points at the gruesome masked human.
Gruesome masked human disappears within a great mushroom shaped cloud.

Magic is meant to be highly powerful as I understand it, yes, but even if I have not actually tested scenarios such as these I think this might be bit over the top. Imagine a combat miracle you hate/love most and have that tossed at you, twice, almost instantly.

Having said this much I'd hate to see wielding two wands made completely useless.

Any thoughts/suggestions?
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

Brom
Experienced
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:52 pm

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Brom » Tue May 14, 2013 3:40 am

I would have thought the cooldown would have been equally applied to all wands. Dual wielding wands sounds dangerous!

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2475
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Delia » Tue May 14, 2013 4:57 am

Yes, wands can be rather dangerous. Even a single one.

Wand ready timer activates when wand is wielded and the cooldown begins after use. The timer counts individually for each wand.

So it is possible to wield two wands and have them both at the ready. Using both wands at the exact same time should be impossible(will try to test this today), IMHO, as a mage cannot multicast any other magics either. It is very possibe to use the other and then the second one though and have the spells at the ready.

I cannot but to see potential for great overkill here even if the current mage players are quite careful and cautious(perhaps even bit too much?)with how magic affects the game. Someday something will happen that will draw attention to this so perhaps it is better to discuss this now before anyone has become severely dismayed by some IC event :)

Wizzie feedback also appreciated :)
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2475
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Delia » Tue May 14, 2013 5:06 am

Also, I apologize if anyone feels that this is revealing too much game mechanics and stuff, I just personally sometimes cannot avoid but feeling quite awkward while playing when I do not know if some very powerful thingy Delia could pull off is "perfectly legal" or not even if she is an ancient character.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

illiad
Beginner
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:49 pm

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby illiad » Tue May 14, 2013 1:17 pm

This is probably a good topic to address now even though so few people have the ability to create wands that approach the level of combat usefulness being suggested by the OP. Also, I am not sure where the line is on things that should be discussed here versus the appropriate wiki page.

I think the use of two wands would be a complex task, and therefore should test the staff magic skill with a moderate to high degree of difficulty. Even then, I do not think it should be risk free and the chances of some sort of backfire should increase with the use of two wands even with a successful staff magic skill test.

If there are some wands that are deemed to be too powerful even for the most skilled of mages to use at the same time as other wands, then perhaps for those specific wands, they would trigger a "wand use wait timer" which might prevent the use of any other wands for a period of time.

ferranifer
Hero
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:16 am
Location: Norway

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby ferranifer » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:23 am

Continuing the conversation started in viewtopic.php?p=29585#p29585.

So, in a nutshell, should we support a mage playstyle that uses weapons in melee range?

Should we allow them to use nyeth to enhance standard weapon melee attacks?

What if they have to prepare the weapon beforehand in order to use it that way (enchant the weapon to be a magic focus)?

Also, are shaolin mages supported too strongly by the current spell library? (Please note that this is different to "are shaolin mages too strong?") Is that a bad thing and is there something that could be done to change that?

glorfindel
Hero
Posts: 280
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:08 pm

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby glorfindel » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:04 am

ferranifer wrote:Continuing the conversation started in viewtopic.php?p=29585#p29585.

So, in a nutshell, should we support a mage playstyle that uses weapons in melee range?

Should we allow them to use nyeth to enhance standard weapon melee attacks?

What if they have to prepare the weapon beforehand in order to use it that way (enchant the weapon to be a magic focus)?

Also, are shaolin mages supported too strongly by the current spell library? (Please note that this is different to "are shaolin mages too strong?") Is that a bad thing and is there something that could be done to change that?


- I think that 'specific' melee weapon types having a chance to trigger specific mage spells has it's charms. I don't think big two handed swords should 'proc' mage spells, but staves or some specialized weaponry (some fancy daggers, rapiers or something? light and quick weaponry in my mind).
- I would personally rather prefer specific 'on hit' triggering instead of generally enhancing melee combat.
- As for shao mages being currently too well supported, I have not dabbled in magic since over an OOC year now (more maybe? ), so I don't know what got developed since then, but back then I remember at least four different spells that specifically supported shao/mage combinations, likely yielding from 50% of the spell researches at that time had some sort of shaolin or shao-special based background. If that's too much is hard to say, I just would not want to see it increasing further, pushing people into that niece.

User avatar
Delia
Overlord
Posts: 2475
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:22 am
Location: Finland

Re: Magic - Questions

Postby Delia » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:09 am

Basically shao training will support all touch attack spells but then again, to get that effect one does not need to join shaos at all. Just fight stuff to train deflect and punch and light armours. This is even better than training as a shao as you do not get a lot of skills to distract you. For added combat punch you can learn elbow and get bodycheck even. Slam is good, too and works with staves.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron