Cities/Guilds being Attacked

[rex]

Hi all,

This post is not meant about anything that has gone on in game recently but I was wondering what some people viewed on this. Let's say for example the Crusader Castle gets raided. Rex was not online while this happened so he was not affected by the attack directly but his brothers (the NPC guards) died a horrible death.

Now my OOC response would be, lets attack back whoever attacked the castle. However, ICly I don't see this being very realistic. There needs to be a rebuilding stage. From an IC standpoint the Crusaders are hurting badly at this point and they need to rebuild.

So I guess what I am asking is, Would it be wrong of me to form a team and attack back right after the attack? Having your guild raided usually does not affect you very much as a player but in my opinion it should be considered worse then your player simply dying (not saying we need to code anything here, I dont think that is plausible). Sure the attackers can steal your orb/books etc but this rarely happens.

How should we act after our guild/cities have been raided?

Rex

[Drayn]

I'd like to see raids have coded objectives. Each objective the raider accomplishes, cripples the guild/city incrementally. Maybe certain services are unavailable for a while until either time has elapsed or (better) money is pumped into the recovery effort (after all, there's all this spare money floating about in the economy).

You enter the inn. The whole place has been ransacked.

Inkeeper says "I'm sorry, the kitchen is closed today. If you want to help out, please stick a few spare coppers in the collection"

You put some coins in the collection box.

Inkeeper says "Thanks! That'll help a lot"

Inkeeper sweeps up some rubble.

[Delia]

I agree that having a guild or city raided is and should be much more severe than the death of a singular PC.

Harder lines could be drawn. Before some indirect contact with the enemy could be tolerated. Now a wrong opinion or wrong affiliation could mean breaking all contact.

Players could start purchasing ore and such even if it does not have a direct game-play relevance. All other trade towards rebuilding is encouraged.

New pacts and alliances could be sought and old ones broken. A re-evaluation of the current situation. What and who do we exactly require and how much we are willing to compromise
when it comes to our ideals?

An instantaneous retaliation might be a tacky move but at some point it must happen. Depending on the particulars a measure of honour could be lost for the sake of just getting even and satiating one's own personal sense of justice.

Any coded consequences would be swell IMO, particularly any which allow/force people to participate towards overcoming them. Meanwhile adding some personal handicap even if the code does not support/force it to yourself could be all in good clean fun.

[fernao]

As for guild raids, well, some guilds are easy to raid, some are quite impossible to raid. Things should be equalized here.

[Delia]

I do not think guilds or cities should stand on equal footing but if there are some clear oversights - such as the shao temple lacking anything to block the entrance with - should be addressed. As was done with the shao temple.

[ganandorf]

In my experience, raiding a guild or city generally became, how many artifacts can we steal, and where can we hide them. Including the bastardsword, guild books, and the guild orb. This eventually became pretty boring, it wasnt very exciting for me, nor was it very exciting for my enemies.

As well guild raiding becomes a battle against the npc's of the guild, as most raids occur when there are no active PC's on, understandably everyone plays at different hours. So, the guild/city with the best npcs gets a HUGE advantage here.

These are the two biggest problems in guild raiding I think.

As to rex's question, a recovery period might be a very cool addition codewise. Player character wise, immediate retaliation could also be valuable.

[Reptar]

I like this idea, would be great roleplay. My only concern is that if this does become implemented, hopefully it won't be abused such that players can raid guilds for the sake of weakening their guild on a non-stop basis and just making services to them not available all the time.

[rex]

I never really thought about actually coding 'punishments' to the city/guild that got raided but I think it is actually possible after reading your replies.

I like all the ideas that have been said but I can also see it being abused which is why I thought simply RPing it would be easier.

I guess some things that could happen:
-Crusader castle gets raided- some NPCs are missing now and they can no longer buy/use mounts or make guild armours/weapons for @48 hours or something. Loss of righteousness/ability to gain righteousness easily afterwards for a short time.
-For cleric guilds that gets raided- temporary loss in EP (@48 hrs and drop is quite a lot) and inability to use shops/make armours. Perhaps loss of certain miracles as punishment from their god for letting their place of worship be attacked.

As for cities perhaps inability to use lockers and bank or the the inn. Taking away shops could be detrimental to new players trying to play the game. I also like the idea of giving coins to help rebuild.

[adanath]

I never really thought about actually coding 'punishments' to the city/guild that got raided but I think it is actually possible after reading your replies.

I like all the ideas that have been said but I can also see it being abused which is why I thought simply RPing it would be easier.

I guess some things that could happen:
-Crusader castle gets raided- some NPCs are missing now and they can no longer buy/use mounts or make guild armours/weapons for @48 hours or something. Loss of righteousness/ability to gain righteousness easily afterwards for a short time.
-For cleric guilds that gets raided- temporary loss in EP (@48 hrs and drop is quite a lot) and inability to use shops/make armours. Perhaps loss of certain miracles as punishment from their god for letting their place of worship be attacked.

As for cities perhaps inability to use lockers and bank or the the inn. Taking away shops could be detrimental to new players trying to play the game. I also like the idea of giving coins to help rebuild.

Well this underscores a roleplay issue at heart.

A lot of players when they wake up after the city is raided look for somewhere safe, then after it is safe there just continue business as normal as if ithas no effect on them,or their alignment, feelings about the raiding guilds etc.

Person 1: What happened here?
Person 2: The city was raided by Sathonys scum and undead.
Person 1: Oh that sounds terrible, I'll go have a coke.

[anglachel]

May be all the shop closes for a short time then the city is raided. After this an extra tax must paid for the repairs for a ooc-week.

[Zehren]

BUILDINGS IN RUINS

FIRES TO BE PUT OUT

CORPSES LITTERING THE STREETS

WEEPING WOMEN AND MOANING MEN

SHOPS BEING CLOSED DOWN AS THE POPULATION LOSES INTEREST IN SHOES

RULERS WALKING THROUGH THE STREETS, OFFERING CONSOLATION

RULERS SITTING IN FRIGHT BEHIND GATES, WATCHING THE ANGRY MOBS WANTING SOMEONE TO BLAME

AKA, anything at all as a consequence would be good. At the moment, attacks have zero consequences whatsoever. (Nor has character death, really.)

[Delia]

Anything that results in fun for the player, something that allows active participation instead of simply cranking up the taxes(though such background mechanisms are nice too).

Allow situations to arise that can actually BENEFIT the character instead of flat out punishing everybody. Of course the general idea IC is that it should be pure crap to live through but opportunities could arise to be the bright pillar of society or just a plain unscrupulous bastard out to skin a few gold coins out from the suffering backs of others.

[louis]

Yea, we really need a destruction model for cities - then also goblonoid troops with huge ballistas would finally make some real fun!

[ganandorf]

Don't forget to also start attacking Asador when there are more than 1 clerics online! They too should get to experience the joys of neverending npcs!

[Drayn]

It'd be nice to have some smaller settlements that could be taken "Capture the Flag" style. The people who control it currently have some flavour effect on the place.

Sathos: Full of shambling undead
Taniels: Full of haughty elves
Crusaders: Full of zealots
Asrals: Spontaneous street fights
Monks: Spontaneous zen gardens

[Aturshus]

It'd be nice to have some smaller settlements that could be taken "Capture the Flag" style. The people who control it currently have some flavour effect on the place.

Sathos: Full of shambling undead
Taniels: Full of haughty elves
Crusaders: Full of zealots
Asrals: Spontaneous street fights
Monks: Spontaneous zen gardens

You include monks in that...but not rangers?

:'(

[Allurana]

Rangers: Boar hookers. Boar hookers everywhere.

[adanath]

Rangers: Boar hookers. Boar hookers everywhere.

Ahhhhh....Boar Hookers.

[Drayn]

Why would rangers, hardcore survivalists, lay claim to a settlement?

But hopefully you can sort of see where I'm coming from. It'd probably be easiest to stick to alignment shifts rather than guilds.

Good: Nice polite citizens, maybe a touch haughty. Higher tax (all those tithes and helping the poor)?

Neutral: Brusque citizens, not impolite so much as curt. Maybe have citizens decide to pick none lethal brawling fights with you?

Evil: Citizens either hostile or wailing in despair. Maybe no where that serves basic needs like food and lodging (who gives a rats ass about the poor). Maybe have goblins/undeads roaming about (a la ironhold)

The settlement could have a small chapel that represents a god(s) of an appropriate alignment.

Settlements of varying sizes might have varying levels of difficulty in being captured. It should also require a substantial amount of people to take over a settlement. Objectives could be things like:

Guard post: Clear out the guards and occupy
Barracks: Clear out the guards and occupy
Leader: Kill or kidnap who ever leads the settlement
Town hall: Occupy
Gates: Clear out the guards and occupy
Chapel: Clear out the heretic priest and occupy

Occupying the objective should be a case of just being in the room unchallenged by a defender (anyone not in the raiding team) for a set length of time. Once all objectives have been captured, the settlement submits to the group or perhaps all objectives must be occupied simultaneously, for longer time periods, thus necessitating larger groups New alignment/god can then be figured out based on the karma and faith of the conquering team, so a team who's followers mostly follow Evren and have a positive karma would make the settlement good and dedicated to Evren. Perhaps captured settlements might also have some benefit to EP for the conquering god, encouraging religious crusades.

[fernao]

Hmm, nice ideas... getting enough people to partake in occupying might be a problem though, especially with the fact in mind that certain groups have quite a small personal roster to start with.