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Rambling: My fading motivation to play

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glorfindel
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Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby glorfindel » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:39 am

Hi,

I've been on and off considering whether or not it would be a good
idea to even publish this, but as being one player who has been
playing this mud (despite on and offs) for over a decade now, I do
believe I should say something. In the last couple of months I found
my own motivation playing GEAS rapidly detoriating to none and I
would like to elaborate why and maybe the one or other player here
will stop by and join in a discussion with some things that can be
remedied.

The Why - Why did I post this ?

First of all, please be aware that I do not intend to bash or flame
anybody, I do believe that most of the things that are done in this
mud do fit there and as long as people are having fun, I have no
gripe with them.

My goal is, in all earnest, seeking a solution to the Problem I am
experiencing, or rather, the Problem that causes me demotivation.
Keep that in mind and keep the flames off me. Thank you.

The What - What is going on ?

My current Situation when I log in, is that I basically do have two
choices in what I can do. I either can find some ridiculous excuse
to hunt some monsters alone (which I find boring after a while, it's
a lot more fun with company) or do join in the Elvandar market daily
soap and get lost there quickly due to my dislike of soaps. Again,
both scenarios are fine as long as the participants are having fun.
Seldomly I do stumble upon a crowd on the Elvandar market that makes
the whole thing fun (Sahla Rocks ;-) ), but that is less then often
the case.

In my eyes, it seems as if the whole game currently boils down to
these two aspects, either you deal with the personal love life of a
few characters (again, no blame to them), or you go on a single
person hunting spree. Both topics are worn off after a time.

Where have the politics gone? Where's the angry mobs, the
zealousness, the alliances and plots? Where's the parties going out
to explore the world or tackle the difficult problems of this world?

Sometimes, I just feel as if all that is being replaced by grinding
and soap. Sure, everything can be fun, but, I guess, my main
problem is the lack of variety and impulse from my peers and myself.

The Grain of Salt - or what am I looking for ?

Basically, at first, an assessment how other people see things right
now. Maybe I'm the only one and it's time to move on. Maybe,
though, it is something others perceive as well (if somebody can
make anything from my rambling) and we can find ways to make the day
to day experience a little more interesting.

poGlorfindel

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luminier
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby luminier » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:39 pm

I too have a fading motivation to play because all of the people that I chummed with have all stopped playing and I liked to play with them.

Seems like thats part of the reason for you as well.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

ghalt
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby ghalt » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:14 pm

I think all the really interesting schemes and plots need movers and shakers to get them going, and right now there's no one active that really fits that category. No taniel cleric is stirring the pot looking for heretics or blindly charging the tower of pain, and the PvP front seems stagnant at the moment.

I'd encourage you to stir things up yourself, but I guess glorfindel isn't really a rabblerouser. Really, taking a break to see if things aren't more interesting a few months down the line might not be a horrible idea?

Edit: some of the people sitting around talking soaps may also just be bored to tears at the thought of fighting alone. Recruit them. ^_^

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golub
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby golub » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:22 pm

From one decade old player to another...

There are those who produce content for others and then there are those parasite on others generate. The producers have protested for the last few years on a wide variety of topics (if you followed the forums even a bit) but they were driven away. Think about which characters who had the ability to make something happen and ask yourself where they are now.

There simply is no content (as you write "politics, angry mobs, zelousness, allience or plots") because the admin have decided through their non-actions that roleplaying is, in effect, forbidden. And where it is not forbidden or discouraged by particular statements made by the admin, "good old" wizards with friends, or thwarted by the constant argumentation against it, the game have also inverted the rewards and penalties so that it is made impossible.

Of course it is dead and silent. Or why don't you try to generate those things you demand? Why do you expect others to do it for you? Are there some difficulties perhaps? Something does not work?

The game could be very different with the right decisions. But it sort of starts by admitting where you are wrong and taking the steps to fix it. Roleplaying as a first-class citizen, for example. Giving how long some of it has been going on, it is quite an uphill battle before you can get it back to zero. Until then, this game is cursed with deadness.

I can not blame your wanting to leave and it seems like a logical decision. As you might have noticed, I am not around all that much either.

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luminier
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby luminier » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:50 pm

I see what you are saying Golub. Without naming names, quite a few people have really stirred the pot in the past, and they are gone now. Ill admit, they caused me some strife IC and OOC but isn't that the point?

Normally when people try to stir the pot, there are many reasons that people make OOC (on the forum etc) for why what that person is doing is bad... and that probably is a big factor in driving them away.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

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Eluriel
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby Eluriel » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:14 am

A lot of the reason why I stopped playing was because I found myself doing the same things every time I logged in: either grind on monsters or work on my crafting and guild skills, or if I ran into some people I knew well enough, rp with them. And I found myself making little progress for the amount of time I was spending, but if I didn't keep working on skills, then I wouldn't get anywhere. And some of my rp choices have been to go against the grain, and it's kind of hard to do anything of real notice or consequence when you don't have the skills to back it up. So, back to grinding...

I did always appreciate players like Rudolpho who made things interesting no matter what was going on. :) I suppose I need to reach out a bit more with my characters, interact more, but they are so solitary usually... which doesn't really work for a rping game. (Thus, I have been working on my novel. There, everyone can see what is going on inside my character's head. :P)

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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby Aturshus » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:16 am

Well, this is how I see the political game right now. Elvandar's council is just there. Nobody does anything, because what to do? I mean, my character -might- if he could AFFORD to waste gold on proposals that won't pass. But for OOC reasons I'd rather not do that, because it's already a pain to keep a vote there. Arborea doesn't budge at all but nobody wants to fight them, because Rangers are friendly with them, Crusaders and Taniel clerics are almost all missing. This may also be a key problem with not seeing much going on besides the usual grinding and rp on a personal level. You'll hardly find a party of just rangers going anywhere exceptionally dangerous, because rangers aren't meant to fight super big enemies by themselves. (Indeed, it's irritating enough that we have to deal with the darkelves when the wizards must surely realize by now that it means -calling for help- when the guild is supposed to be secret. Not that everybody doesn't know where it is anyways.)

I think it's a quiet spell, and it will pass. At least, I hope it will.

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luminier
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby luminier » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:15 pm

Another thing that doesn't help the rangers fight "big enemies" is the lack of ability to shoot into another room because of that bug. =D *nudge nudge*
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby louis » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:23 pm

luminier wrote:Another thing that doesn't help the rangers fight "big enemies" is the lack of ability to shoot into another room because of that bug. =D *nudge nudge*

Hmm?

EDIT: Is that still this aiming thing?

ghalt
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby ghalt » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:10 pm

louis wrote:
luminier wrote:Another thing that doesn't help the rangers fight "big enemies" is the lack of ability to shoot into another room because of that bug. =D *nudge nudge*

Hmm?

EDIT: Is that still this aiming thing?


"Shoot north at goblin" et al has had 100% miss rate for months, regardless of skill or enemy. Or close enough that no one bothers trying anymore. I believe it may work against players normally, and therefore might be based on the "taking cover" behavior. So rangers and other archers can no longer attempt to "soften up" targets before charging into the room, as long range archery just doesn't function.

It's the "Recent Archery issue" bug luminier posted in the bugs forum.

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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby Aturshus » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:55 pm

Well, it certainly doesn't help to have our biggest asset crippled like that, no.

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Delia
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby Delia » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:13 am

I've felt this fading motivation to play as well but then again having played the game almost as long as poGlorfindel I guess it is only natural.

Part of my feelings come from the daily grind and there is much of it. Mind you, I like that there are things that become a routine part of your character's life but sometimes it can be a bit overwhelming.

Another part comes from social dynamics, the soap as it was previously addressed as. It is fun and all that but playing the character Delia is, I do not want to establish her, or mages in general as the "friendly neighbourhood mage"-type. That and the fact that much of what she does require solitude. Again it is all fun to a point but it slowly adds up.

There is also a very distinct feeling of powerlessness that I have to admit which bugs me. Yea, you might think that "Whaaat? Delia the superludicrous elf feeling powerless?", it is not that, or about any powers any one character or group, guild or anysuch has but the gripping realization that you cannotreally accomplish anything against the relentless hordes of insects, demons, Sathos(even if you Satho players have always been a blast, thank you for that)and whatelse.

I try to imagine how other players with younger characters might feel and it is not always pretty. I, of course, might be completely wrong here. It is fun to fight back, do the whole struggle against overwhelming odds thing but after decisive victories and devastating defeats one after the other one begins to feel the need for some consequences. That, and I suspect being made to watch how Arborea or some other is invaded, again, without anyone being able to do anything, makes for a very indifferent feeling after a while.

Anyhoo, these were all feelings not facts and hopefully I will gather my energy eventually and hop back online to see how Forostar is doing. In the meantime, play nice :)
"To be is to do" - Sokrates
"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby mazarmormuk » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:04 pm

yes, i feel the same so, too., but i well guess it ll pass.

imo the game slept in a bit after there was an quite active time, and i guess
phelan and lucifer made a big deal there.
i neither know why, but it seems all those players initiating action, politics, etc, are sleeping or not interrested in starting the next round.
the left options are not very motivating for long.
and yes, maybe some got the feeling that they cannot take part on the important events like close the tower of pain, protecting arborea, closing the insects portal, going deep into whereever, invading whatever.

i hope the game will wake up soon again..

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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby Mogwai » Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:37 pm

This is a really good point. I there were a variety of good pot stirrers at some point. I think being called a bully, being ostracized from society, disliked on the forums, generally disliked ooc tends to deter some pot stirrers.

You had people like Delmon who loved stirring the pot, loved giving people stuff to write on the boards. Of course Phelan and Lucian did great with their activities but sounded like they got tired of putting up with the ooc ramblings.

From my knowledge, mages were "supposed" to become pot stirrers but that didn't work out that way. Developing resources for increasing the variety of guaranteed pot stirrers never happened. I suppose I sound like a douche but I saw this coming from miles away.

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luminier
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby luminier » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:13 pm

I get the vibe that some people want pot stirrers but all of the onus is put onto the pot stirrer to make things happen. When you have 1 player working for something and everyone (almost) else is against it, it is really hard.

My point is that it seems like a pot stirrer will show up, try something and everyone will get upset, they (the pot stirrer) leave and then we say that the game is quiet.

The problem with mages that I saw right away was how mages were very secretive and very selective. I couldve had the Crusaders come down hard on them for practicing their magic. But there is a problem with that, IC I don't understand magic at all. If I came down hard on mages for just being mages with no real backbone for my argument that makes me look bad and then everyone is against me.

Even though it might make sense IC and OOC that a Crusader would hunt a mage lets say, people who are neutral and just want everyone to have a happy fun time in the MUD would call me a bully for hurting the poor mages who just want to practice magic.

I feel like the situation I described although it didn't happen had a very good chance of happening. Maybe I just need to be more of a RP master to make it so I can get people on my side.

Is that what you meant Mogwai? That's the idea I got, sorry if I got it wrong.


Also, as an aside... I think players in general should try and take more ques from the game itself. Ill give an example...If NPC's in the town say a character is the best thing since sliced bread your view should be at least partly influenced by that and if you don't think the same as everyone else be prepared to have everyone think you are strange.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby Mogwai » Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:51 am

You understand it exactly lumi. You're damned if you are a pot stirrer and then if no one does it the game goes quiet. Most people aren't up for the challenge of being a pot stirrer but I salute those who were and who did because it's rough.

It's easy to play the neutral and not take risks and be all chummy with everyone(having done most sides for a variety of days).

I know you've done your fair share of pot stirring... it is a community service in some ways. You do it for the good of the game. Sure people want to not die and feel safe.

People want stuff to write about and talk about. People want vendettas. People want the world to be dynamic and not safe. It's like Lord of the Rings. Woo we've gotten past sauron... Let's make the hobbit since this is all said and done but if no one does it we end up in lulls.

Yeah no one wants to be that soldier who dies in helms deep, no one wants to be the dying warrior...but it adds depth, sacrifice, and richness to stories.
You get painted as being bully for attacking the mages and being that bad guy who is a war-aholic and I get that.

It's just sad when you have people willing to be the pot stirrers. Yet they are walked all over ooc for being some of the lifeblood of the game. Like people complain about it but aren't willing to invest in being hunted down, investing 30+ days, losing access to towns, being ostracized etc etc.

Pick your poison: pesky villain or death by boredom.

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Delia
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby Delia » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:11 am

Anyone wishing to harass or accuse mages will have to do with suspicions and wild accusations unless some serious work has been done beforehand. Anyways, there is a lot of magical lore in the game which is not entirely in favour of the mages and this was before the magic system was even in the testing phase. So I think people in general should/could be more willing to hear those wild accusations without dismissing them completely.

Mages have become quite open as Forostar has shown itself to be very lenient, understanding and accepting. Open, even. So why should a mage hesitate about casting a slightly suspicious spell very close to the city if nobody will think twice about it? People also have accepted(seemingly)the explanations like "magic is not inherently evil or good, it is the intent, now go away stupid, I am busy being wise and intelligent" very readily.

Also the inherent good/evil is apparently gauged by the effect and looks of magic. If it is beneficial, it must be inherently good somehow. Sometimes mages just seem to get away with it. A mage passes by and fiddles with the weather a bit. Aww, nice and warm now. The mage leaves and sometime after people are hit by freak lightning. A mage stops an undead abomination from approaching:

- Is that not, *gulp*, controlling the undead, Sir Mage?, a peasant asks
Mage shakes his head vigorously
- 'Tis only a barrier to keep the dead at bay, rest assured!, the mage exclaims

I am not saying this is that and what is what but one can really let one's imagination run wild.

There have been some singular characters who have roleplayed fear, loathing, alienation and what else towards the mages and it all has been really fun. Being the only one trying to blame the mages for this new disease running amok or some other calamity is tiresome, I know but thank you all the good people out there. From my part atleast.

Though of course with all the major threats out there the mages seem peanuts in comparison. Might as well put them to some use against the endless Sathos, undead, demons and dark elves that run around killing everybody.(Btw, the most active opposition against magic in general has always come from the Sathos, almost makes the Mages seem like the good guys).

Sorry for the derail, but one can always derail me with a bit of magetalk.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

glorfindel
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby glorfindel » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:02 am

Hi,

It seems, especially with the input of poMogwai and poLumi, we hit one point that is likely describing part of the problem why the game is so quiet ( one of many, though ).

I want to make one thing clear beforehand: I absolutely think OOC blaming of people is wrong. I don't think it's ever helpful in any way and should not happen and it will only hurt people.

Most people dislike seeing their character die (and I am no exception to that, given the amount of time it takes to recover a char of Glor's age), yet I try to not let it hinder the way I perceive the game and act upon it (I am sorry to those when I didn't manage).

I can relate to people being tired of the amount of hate they receive from other players (I've played on the "dark side" for a short while and can relate to many things that some people said here) and I believe it should be in the interest of everybody around here to keep also those that are, hmm, not so convienient to have around.

However, and I also want to point that out, after over a decade of play, I have realized that I'm not the best PVP player ever born, nor I am a powergamer. My char does what he likes and certainly has learned more useless stuff then he should ever have, plus a few development choices that do make him an less then optimal opponent. Given that background, for me, it grows tiresome very quickly to have somebody else just repeatedly demonstrate you that they know you have no chance and there's no support.

I'm not saying that such statement should influence how your character adds, but I think, Phelan and Lucifer have demonstrated that they do know how to keep the hard line of their guild while keeping the game fun. And yes, that involves being sacrificed on a cross, or having a trip to their city, with a coffin being your way back. Yes, that means being chased and not feeling save.... that's how things are and should be. Getting your ass kicked and seeing your city burn, your people suffer, etc. But it also means, to not get drowned in the superiority of your char but keep an mind on that this is not a competitive rush for the strongest char in town, but a collective roleplaying effort.

And lastly, I personally always enjoyed the plotting, intrigues, hidden evil, tricksters, plotting, etc (and the fanatics) much more, then the endless PVP games. But that's just me.

I guess, lastly one question remains to ask how things had to change from both sides, so people of both sides would not be appalled as much ?

I believe conversation often helps there, but only as long as people can keep their emotions at bay *bows slightly*.

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Delia
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby Delia » Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:53 pm

All this gloomy grimness aside, I logged in today to find some new stuff! I am writing some typo reports, so wait a bit before you write your own should you find something you have not seen yet(older players who have seen it all, that is).

Praises to the Big T indeed :)
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

glorfindel
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Re: Rambling: My fading motivation to play

Postby glorfindel » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:19 pm

I couldn't agree more to that. :-)


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