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Wands, item analysis

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Eluriel
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby Eluriel » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:38 pm

Yeah, my next step would be just... trying to do random things involving my hands and the item I want to identify, hehe. It is kind of strange that certain commands would be given OOC but others would not be. I guess I know how to use wands but not entirely what to do with the magic once I get it? And yes, I suppose I could always ask another alchemist.

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Delia
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby Delia » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:25 am

Just checked the mantra information. It fully discloses how to use that spell in particular. If you do not know the spell yourself, it goes to assume you do not instinctively know how to use it? IMHO. :)
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fernao
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby fernao » Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:21 am

Concerning the use of wands and syntax and knowledge gained by "experimenting" vs. being tought through others/guild, well, the Harry Potter movie Philosopher's Stone comes to mind where the first year Hogwarts students learn to use their wand to use the "levi corpus" spell, and the wand is to be moved in a specific way. Even with the guidance of a teacher, one of the students manages to explode the feather he was meant to levitate.

Now imagine if someone that just managed to get his or hands of a wand by whatever means "mindlessly" waves it around, perhaps muttering words that he or she may have overheard others using... What kind of maleffects you happen... and if its a two-step spell, where the first part is the successful use of a wand, how the heck should that person know, without additional information gained through guild/teachers, what to do after the successful activation of the spell stored in the wand?

I therefore fully support the decission of the wizards to make the first step public knowledge, via help files, and the second step depend on information gained IC.
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ferranifer
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby ferranifer » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:16 am

I didn't really want to reply here again but I'd hate to move out of this without making my point clear, and I feel that with all the obscurity surrounding the actual command, the point got lost in the way.

Consider these command examples:

'stand up' / 'stand up from ground'
'west' / 'walk west with legs'
'analyse gem' / 'analyse crystal's properties'
'mount horse' / 'climb on horse's back'

Now please think about which ones are too complicated and which ones are actual intuitive game commands.

I never had any problem with the learning on how to use wands and the OP did not ask for help with that. Nobody did? Wand usage is already controlled by in game mechanics and it's a simple and sensible interface. It is now common public knowledge too which makes sense to me considering that wand usage does not necessarily require knowing the mantra or membership in any specific guild. These are not Harry Potter's wizards wands. They are made to be used by muggles. Hey, they could have worked in a different way, and that's also fine. Again, they were never the problem.

It's the unnecessarily complex syntax of the second part that is the problem. What are players supposed to do with their hands when they glow with magic? I am sorry, but it's just a badly worded command and it's no wonder people have trouble with it. If it's not supposed to be directly usable or require certain knowledge (which I won't even try to debate), then maybe the command should do those checks? Right now, it's terrible syntax that just make the player feel horrible when they actually get to learn the command IC.

Obviously there is a desire to keep the second step shrouded in secrecy to preserve the "mystery" of magic usage and open venues for IC interaction. I just think the way it's done is misguided and a prime example of terrible interface design. But hey, your call guys.

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Delia
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby Delia » Tue Sep 16, 2014 2:30 am

They are made to be used by muggles


Actually, by default wands are not made for everyone to use. There is a specific wand creation command toggle for that. I am unsure what the difference is though. Haven't toyed with it but I think there is room for defining the place and use of wands better.

As for the general commands for magic use, perhaps guild teachers could have something to say about that? Could be nice.

And I have to agree that some often commands are rather...hard to use compared to others. Even harder to explain to someone who has very little experience with GEAS. I guess this is due to avoiding creation of too many new commands for magic. Some of the commands work well enough, meaning you can accidentally trigger the effect just by with fooling around but the couple of ones that require very exact form in order to function kinda escape me. I can live with it though.

Anyhoo, I guess the point in general is that while I can agree that not all commands should be automatically known by players but that the thematic grounds by which characters know or do not know about magic and its use should not be based on players knowing the syntax or not. Or something like that :)

And magic is still in its beta phase, I can be wrong here though.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra


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