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Wands, item analysis

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Eluriel
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Wands, item analysis

Postby Eluriel » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:56 am

So, I was playing around with wands, having not really used them much before. I made a wand of item analysis, but I'm not really sure how I'm supposed to use it. If I "use wand" my hands glow. But... how do I analyze the item I want to analyze? Feel free to send me a private message if you'd like. Could there possibly be help files on certain spells if they require a certain syntax though?

ferranifer
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby ferranifer » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:39 am

For yyy based spells, it tends to be:

'xxx' (Edited with love from Louis)

That should work with item analysis.

I agree that a helpfile is necessary for this, since it's purely an interface issue. Problem is that a small number of spells use special syntaxes, so they would have to be standarized.

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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby fernao » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:13 am

Such information should definately be made available in the guilds that teach the related skills, so that would mean scribes, alchemists and mages.
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ferranifer
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby ferranifer » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:48 pm

There is no reason those commands shouldn't be public knowledge. They are no different than 'stand up' or 'kick'.

Activation words or special actions are a different matter, but the basic magic interface commands like 'xxx' or 'xxx' should be standardized and publicly explained. (Edited with love from Louis)

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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby louis » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:25 am

Sorry folks, but this matter - the question what shall be public knowledge and whatnot - must be decided by the wizards. Since I am currently unsure about the current stance of the wizards in this matter, I removed some information from the postings in this thread (to avoid further harm) - sorry for that :mrgreen: .

My personal opinion is - if you want to learn something of wands and magic, ask someone in game (since our game is of interaction , isnt it?), read a book in game, obtain the information on any way in game. So, I personally would not disclose ANY knowledge unnecessarily, and I personally also do not consider every interface command as pure ooc knowledge (and thus requiring a public helpfile). Imo this information is guild members eyes only, so to say.

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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby ghalt » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:29 am

As a counterargument for those two specific command so they're something a character is realistically very likely to do by accident, but a player is extremely unlikely to accidently type. I mean, we're not talking the hokey pokey here. I'd draw a correlation, even, to how hard it was to draw chalk circles by accident a while back. Really hard to figure out the secret syntax in game, even though its something any of us did before we were 5.

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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby louis » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:47 am

Howdy,
I am personally not arguing against "helping the players in question in means of syntax" - I am arguing against "making guild specific information public to anyone".
In other words, I am against publishing such details in the forums (and not on the guilds ooc board for example).

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Delia
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby Delia » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:04 am

In most cases the mantra information(should)reveal the syntax and stuff. Having a spell as a mantra represents studied and understood information(researched spells, for example). This is one of the things that differentiates free magic from mantras. If you accidentally cast a wrong spell, it is likely that you do not know what to do with it.

If the mantra description does not include any information about the spell and how to use it I am inclined to say it is an oversight and should be reported.
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ferranifer
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby ferranifer » Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:25 am

Everyone can use wands. If you know how to use a wand, how can you not know that when your hands are filled with energy, that energy will release when you do something? (keeping the actual verb hidden here, though it makes the point difficult to come through) If your mind is filled with magic that affects the way you think.. you would know?

We are talking about basic intuitive stuff here that uses obscure syntax that people (seemingly) have trouble to figure out. Is there really a reason to keep this hidden?

Also, how about other verbs that imply much more complicated things characters can do? Should people not know the commands for how to invoke scrolls, meditate or steal? Makes no sense.

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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby Delia » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:16 am

I see no problems for some additional information being available in the magic help files as they become accessible only after you have actual magic skills(if not changed). But yes, you do have a point. Thinking about it I might dislike if players were completely guided through every bit of the way but some encouraging hint(help files, preferably)somewhere might be good.
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ferranifer
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby ferranifer » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:27 am

The syntax could also be revised to remove unnecessary words and symbols so someone that is trying intuitive verbs simply finds out how to do things naturally. You know which ones I'm talking about.

Dax
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby Dax » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:15 am

Just post all the information here.

I can kill other characters. I can then steal their wands. I can read the information here. Then I can use the wands. :twisted:

If I find out I can't use the wands then, I can come back here and read what I am doing wrong. Then I can use the wands. :idea:

ghalt
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby ghalt » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:49 am

If you kill me for my item analysis wands, I'm pretty sure I'll be the real winner.

:p

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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby Dax » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:24 am

Plot abandoned.

Thanks for the info.

And just to emphasize Louis's point.....I have no clue what the hell an item analyse wand is.....or whatever.

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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby louis » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:20 pm

ferranifer wrote:Everyone can use wands. If you know how to use a wand, how can you not know that when your hands are filled with energy, that energy will release when you do something? (keeping the actual verb hidden here, though it makes the point difficult to come through) If your mind is filled with magic that affects the way you think.. you would know?

We are talking about basic intuitive stuff here that uses obscure syntax that people (seemingly) have trouble to figure out. Is there really a reason to keep this hidden?

Also, how about other verbs that imply much more complicated things characters can do? Should people not know the commands for how to invoke scrolls, meditate or steal? Makes no sense.

I disagree completely. A wand is a useless stick until you learn in game how to use it.

To make this clear once again - THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO EXPLAIN ON THE FORUMS HOW TO USE A WAND IN GAME!

And if this in game learning includes the syntax, then the syntax has to be considered IC too, and NOT as OOC info - and this makes the secret of the usage of wands guild stuff (ingame stuff).

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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby ferranifer » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:23 pm

I'm not talking about the ability to use a wand but about the ability to use your hands.

You are obscuring a mundane action by putting it behind unintuitive commands. It's bad interface.

Besides that, not sure if you're aware, but anybody can use a wand with no previous training whatsoever. They are made to be used that way. That's what wands actually are. They are a wooden stick that you just wave and then boop! magic happens (since they require no training). That's unless you want to consider obtaining the knowledge of the command is actual IC stuff. Like, you have to concentrate on this or that way or something in those lines. Then well, ok, but that still doesn't cover what you do after the magic has happened. It's kinda hard to talk about this in vague terms, I hope the point is coming across though.
Last edited by ferranifer on Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby louis » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:37 pm

Pointless discussion - in my eyes you are just unnecessarily and needlessly disclosing ingame information instead offering our players the chance to find some things out by themelves.

But as said alreay, the decision what will made public knowledge, and what not, is a decision the wizards will have to meet.

ferranifer
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby ferranifer » Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:38 pm

Well, ok then.

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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby louis » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:59 pm

I spoke with Turian considering this matter, here is his verdict:
I.) The command 'use wand' shall be public and ooc available information.
II.) All other possibly possible interactions with wands shall be obtained in character.

I hope that helps ;)

Rastien
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Re: Wands, item analysis

Postby Rastien » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:16 pm

Dax wrote:Just post all the information here.

I can kill other characters. I can then steal their wands. I can read the information here. Then I can use the wands. :twisted:

If I find out I can't use the wands then, I can come back here and read what I am doing wrong. Then I can use the wands. :idea:

Well... if you have known how to use a wand and it was a wand of item analysis, you could use it on some other wand to find out how to use that one. Shame you need to know some info about an item to get item analysis running... :/

*wink*


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