luminier wrote: - All clerics have a way to heal in combat, melee guilds do not. This is first because it is probably the biggest advantage.
luminier wrote: - All clerics can either do massive damage in combat (smite/waterlance) or cause bleeding/prevent running (bone spear) or set people on fire (heavens fire) every 16 seconds or less. This is with a minor beseech deity level (around 50) and even at low favour, near 100% chance to cast.
- All clerics have a -strong- ability to deal damage in mood defend with a shield when solo. Melee guilds cant deal damage at all in mood defend when solo.
luminier wrote: - All clerics have the ability to block every exit for every character in the room no matter how many exits there are in a room. Note: hellways and archways are not affected by this ability. Melee guilds cannot escape easily without penalty (neither can Asral Clergy, but they wouldn't really want to either, trap miracle is made to counter melee fighters)
luminier wrote: - Clerics used to have a cooldown on casting miracles. If they asked for a miracle, they would have to wait until it was answered. Now they can just abort the old miracle with minor penalty and start casting again right away.
luminier wrote: - There are very few options to actually interrupt someone who has begun casting a miracle. If it's a gestures miracle, breaking their arm would work, if it is a concentration miracle it is pretty much impossible. Interrupting should be a lot easier, like a body check or tackle to the ground mid cast should probably cancel the cast.
luminier wrote:It seems to me that Clerics are certainly "the way to go" if you want a powerful character.
Aslak wrote:Yes, it is a powerful thing, but far less powerful then you might think. The healing does not stop bleeding, and if you are bleeding, you barely heal more then the bleeding does to yourself. Of cause, you cannot do any damage while you heal and are hit more easily.
Bonepriests healing is even so weak (healing wise), I never have seen it in use during pvp.
Luminier wrote:- All clerics have a -strong- ability to deal damage in mood defend with a shield when solo. Melee guilds cant deal damage at all in mood defend when solo.
Aslak wrote:Both are pretty much the same argument. It depends a lot if you have magical resistance on you or not. If you have, the damage done by miracles is FAR less threatening. I take like 10 bonespears without healing when my magic defences are up. In the time it takes to cast them, a warrior would have killed me twice.
If you have no resistance buffs on yourself, miracles CAN hurt a lot, but it depends on several factors still.
Aslak wrote:We still have to wait. Casting times are rather long for combat stuff.
Luminier wrote: - There are very few options to actually interrupt someone who has begun casting a miracle. If it's a gestures miracle, breaking their arm would work, if it is a concentration miracle it is pretty much impossible. Interrupting should be a lot easier, like a body check or tackle to the ground mid cast should probably cancel the cast.
Aslak wrote:Also, a warrior usually remains the better warrior, as the priest will have to put quite some stats into his mental stats or he will be unable to use any of the nice priest abilities
that is only true one on one. As soon as you have two clerics... enter holy word. Heal your allies, kill your foes, even fear them away. Also, I think the Asral heal is different to the Taniel heal, the taniel cure is rather powerful for not too much time investment.
glorfindel wrote:That is not 100% true. A cleric is a lot easier to hit while casting. A shield somewhat counters that, but only to an extend.
glorfindel wrote:I am sorry, but that is a clerics perspective. The common man has a lot of problems aquiring resistances unless there's some guild way providing you. Magic resistance is rare and powerful, if you got it, you will have a good chance to survive miracles, otherwise..
glorfindel wrote:A dwarf, human or tshahark with a two handed weapon can take up to 40 seconds
to attempt to hit you. Compared to that, 16 seconds seem... nothing. Besides, you still get the ability to perform specials and whatnot while casting, do you not?
glorfindel wrote:This is, honestly, the gripe I have with clerics as is. I am fine with them, especially the trained old ones, being hard to interrupt. But if I knock you off your feet, break one of your legs, make you scream in agony and bleed like a pig, I would expect you to mess up channeling that miracle. I would not want to call for drastic steps here, I think a high resistance against failure makes a lot of sense for a cleric, however receiving a critical hit of any kind should be a deal breaker. Maybe falling down as well. Or maybe receiving a lot of damage in a short time... could be dependent on the chars discipline.
glorfindel wrote:I do not really agree here, as it only takes you 2 skills to be effective as a cleric (specific to the cleric), maybe three if you are preaching. You sure have to shove a little of your experience towards your mentals, but you can still spend all your focus on learning combat abilities. Takes a little more time then it would take a basic fighter, but still significantly less time then it would take you to make a Shaolin or Ranger.
isengoo wrote:I like being strong so I vote for no changes.
luminier wrote:Im down for keeping clerics the way they are if the fighter guilds are brought up to snuff as well
Arsicas wrote:luminier wrote:Im down for keeping clerics the way they are if the fighter guilds are brought up to snuff as well
I kind of disagree. People without guilds are already far underpowered compared to those in guilds. If the cleric and warrior guilds keep getting stuff added to them, the poor guildless folks are going to be left in the dust.
mazarmormuk wrote:i did read your notes and thought wow, yep, clerics are really powerful, and after rethiunking i still think they are.
and asrals are by far the ones with the biggest bandwidth i think
then i think of what my char fears most..not npcs, not other casting clerics,
most my char fears is a pure fighter with a twohanded weapon.
i can agree with you, luminier, and still i cant decide clerics are overpowered.
if i encounter phelan we cast forth and back and the one losing runs or some circumstances make a lucky winner pulling the other into death.
if i remember fights against luminier or other "twohanders", it was each millisecond the chance to die instantly.
mazarmormuk wrote:i guess mogwai specifically talked of asral clerics missing allies.
luminier wrote:mazarmormuk wrote:i guess mogwai specifically talked of asral clerics missing allies.
I recall not long ago, maybe more than 8 months ago, Asralites in particular had many Arborean allies that includes thieves, Order, and mercenaries in Arborea.
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