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To the Order players

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Aturshus
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To the Order players

Postby Aturshus » Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:36 pm

Specifically, Nadie and Jegga,

Do you think you're being good villains by killing Tesric every reboot? You aren't. Maybe you don't know this, but Tesric DOES NOT RESPAWN and nor do the horses, so all you are doing is making it impossible for other players to buy horses. That's not being an ingame villain, that's you as a player being a villain.

ferranifer
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Re: To the Order players

Postby ferranifer » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:33 pm

Ok, so you want to hurt Elvandar, let's see what are your options:

- Make Elvandar an unsafe place to be in.
- Destroy as many Elvandar assets as you can afford to destroy.
- Remove the advantages of being aligned with Elvandar.
- Discredit the Elvandarian representatives.

The corral being an Elvandarian exclusive is as much a perk as it is a disadvantage. (Not respawning is a bit excessive though.)

Aturshus
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Re: To the Order players

Postby Aturshus » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:39 pm

While I in no way believe Elvandar exclusively should sell mounts, removing the only place in the game that sells mounts week after week is still stupid.

Also, what if you wanted to weaken Asador, or Arborea? They do not have such easy targets standing outside of the city in any case. Hangman doesn't count, he doesn't really do anything. :P

ferranifer
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Re: To the Order players

Postby ferranifer » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:18 pm

Against Asador I would systematically attack, stun and move the darkelf guarding the bridge. Also I would keep the Tower closed, place watchtowers at the gorge and make sure that the whole forest is patrolled by almost invisible archers which can one-shot the asadorians.

Against Arborea I would place watchtowers in every access point, terrorize the whole world with the prospect of being outlawed in Elvandar by applying its Law everywhere, discredit the Asral clergy and try to take over the city's civil judge position.

Nasty stuff, I know.

Aturshus
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Re: To the Order players

Postby Aturshus » Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:21 pm

Almost invisible? I see them everywhere, like they don't know how to hide. Stunning and moving guards is metagaming as the guards should not be too stupid to move back, the code simply doesn't let them. You talk of watchtowers like just anybody can come along and pop one up in minutes. No, also no. On the other hand killing a horse merchant takes seconds undoubtedly. What is one supposed to do, stand there with him all the time? There's no counterplay. Does it really -weaken- Elvandar? No. Doesn't. Does it annoy players? Most certainly. Are you really going to try to justify it? Suppose some random player had a key to the scribes guild and locked it every reboot so nobody could go inside. Would that weaken Arborea? Nah. Would it annoy you? Undoubtedly.

ferranifer
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Re: To the Order players

Postby ferranifer » Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:48 pm

You asked what could one do to weaken Arborea and Asador and I simply gave you some examples, all of which have been done in game at one point or another.

The horse breeder is something that Elvandar has to protect since it also restricts access to it. I am sure the Order would also kill Xuchal if they had the ability to do so. It is up to you to find what to do about it. There is no doubt that there is collateral damage but hey, such is the nature of faction-aligned elements like guilds or commodities. You control them, you protect them. In that framework, I wouldn't say it hurts others players of the game more than that's the actual intended design of restricted commodities. It's part of the game world. If the horse breeder was in a neutral spot you wouldn't be seeing this behaviour.

There is a warg vendor in Asador. Think about the implications of that.
Last edited by ferranifer on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Aturshus
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Re: To the Order players

Postby Aturshus » Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:52 pm

There is once again no reasonable way to protect this npc. What do you think, we should stand around at them all day every day? Elvandar has Xuchal and Tesric, yes. Arborea has every craft guild but gemcutting and only one layman guild is even outside it's walls. So once again would you consider it fair if people had a way to lock you out of those assets whenever they want unless you stand there constantly?

ferranifer
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Re: To the Order players

Postby ferranifer » Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:58 pm

I don't have an answer on how you would protect the NPC. I also agree that the world's commodities distribution isn't fair, specially for the Asadorians and even less so for darkelves. I don't think it's meant to be.

I can recommend a couple things though:
- Make the city guards protect the corral.
- Put up a watchtower.
- Do patrol Elvandar's boundaries and try to keep tabs on enemy presence.
- (And the crazy one!) Actually try to figure out what is going on.

Also, he should probably respawn, not quite sure why he doesn't since all other quest givers, guards and patrols do.

Aturshus
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Re: To the Order players

Postby Aturshus » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:05 pm

Yes poor Asadorians get like nothing. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure they have nothing. I have always thought that every city should have a custom and mount npc, as well as a variety of guilds. :(

It's really not hard to 'figure out what's going on'. I know exactly what is happening, they/you whoever is killing him.
Watchtowers are out of the question. Guards wouldn't make a spit of difference, the thilden guards are already easy targets.
I already checked that it's not a bug in the current mechanics, he just doesn't respawn.
You can patrol but unless you are doing it all the time you won't find anybody. The game's movement system is too instantaneous for that.

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luminier
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Re: To the Order players

Postby luminier » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:09 pm

To Aturshus,

Unless I am mistaken, the problem is that the Order is terrorizing Elvandar.

Unless I am mistaken again, you are intimating here that you don't have the means to stop it and it is unfair for people to not have access to horses because of game design.

You'll solve little or nothing by bringing it to the forums. Talk about it with the people In game. If you don't want to deal with them, then you'll have your stables terrorized.

Ferranifer is trying to help you, and he has rightly pointed out ways that the goodies have made life hard for the evilies which are similar in annoyance and given you a good suggestion to try and deal with it in the game. If I know the Order though, I know what they want. And if I know Aturshus, he won't be the one to give it to them. But because you are a smart player youll figure out a way that both of you can have your cake that will benefit elvandar and the playerbase.
The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world.

Aturshus
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Re: To the Order players

Postby Aturshus » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:44 pm

Oh no, I don't care if they try to terrorize Elvandar. They can do that until their faces are blue.

But suppose for example, I could lock them out of things on a whim due to game design. Would I? Nah. They can access Arborea just like anybody else who has access there, and can't access Elvandar just like anybody else who earned it.

Also if you mean what I think you do, then I must apologize in advance that it never happens. :P

ferranifer
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Re: To the Order players

Postby ferranifer » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:45 am

I wonder what can the Order do to make you care.

If Aturshus of all people doesn't care about the Order terrorizing Elvandar, what's the point of Order bothering to be villains at all?

It seems you do care about this, just in an OOC way. Does Aturshus care? Shouldn't he?

P.S.: I believe darkelf faces are already kind of blue. ;)

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Allurana
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Re: To the Order players

Postby Allurana » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:30 am

ferranifer wrote:P.S.: I believe darkelf faces are already kind of blue. ;)


If I remember the lore correctly, GEAS darkelves are actually more of a pale white. The dark in their name is symbolic of their alignment/life style rather than their skin color.

Unless you're referring to something else and it just went completely over my head.

Aturshus
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Re: To the Order players

Postby Aturshus » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:45 am

ferranifer wrote:I wonder what can the Order do to make you care.

If Aturshus of all people doesn't care about the Order terrorizing Elvandar, what's the point of Order bothering to be villains at all?

It seems you do care about this, just in an OOC way. Does Aturshus care? Shouldn't he?

P.S.: I believe darkelf faces are already kind of blue. ;)



Well of course he does. What I mean is I wouldn't mind at all if evil characters were being evil (kinda expect/hope for that really?), except this is pretty extreme.

My point is sure, there's always something you -can- do. I'm just really disappointed players still can't draw the line between fun and annoying.

Olrane
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Re: To the Order players

Postby Olrane » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:42 pm

Attacking NPCs under the assumption that they will not respawn is an exploit of the game's code mechanics and should be viewed as such. Taking part in this willfully is strongly frowned upon. If you see an NPC not respawned, I would commune or bugreport it, as they should automatically respawn after a short duration.

This is not a viable avenue to enact terrorism. Capturing and holding the NPC elsewhere is also exploitative if you leave the NPC unattended, I would say.

It really doesn't matter who you are or what your motives are. Locking out game resources like that is not adversarial, it's antisocial. The collateral damage is too great, and frankly, it's a cowardly way to approach one's enemies.

Attack a guild. Attack a guild's specific resources. Attack a player. Don't attack an unattended function of the game world that you know you'll have no challenge in and can remove from play for a hugely disproportionate amount of time.

ferranifer
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Re: To the Order players

Postby ferranifer » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:32 pm

Before you pull out the torches and pitchforks, don't jump to the assumption that the players knew the NPC wouldn't respawn.

Aturshus
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Re: To the Order players

Postby Aturshus » Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:56 pm

Yes, it's fair to say they weren't aware the first time. Maybe they never went back to check after killing him, but that seems at least a bit unlikely.

ferranifer
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Re: To the Order players

Postby ferranifer » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:21 am

Well, I'm simply gonna peace out of this thread.


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