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Heya, My thoughts on geas

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Nylessa
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Heya, My thoughts on geas

Postby Nylessa » Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:50 pm

Yo. I used to play quite some time ago, I played several characters and constantly tried to get into this game, Geas - was my first RP mud.

Geas has some great gameplay mechanics and a lot of things about it that are fun, but the problems I have with it stem from the fact that mechanics wise, and in some way, world wise, this game is NOT friendly towards a more casual player of the game, I , personally, want to play a fantasy game for the fantasy - and I'm an _avid_ roleplayer who wants to RP, create stories, and have fun doing that, I keep my OOC entirely separate from my IC character.

That said, a lot of cool things are gated behind extreme requirements that really, to me? aren't fun - and I don't know if anyone else feels this way but I personally feel that it shouldn't take months upon months - not just OOC time, but online played time and constantly doing stuff to achieve certain things - IE, stuff like being a mage (my knowledge on this isn't huge, as i never played a mage and probably never will because of the time commitment required)

Another example is the recently added 'ability' system - i love it, its really cool, but a friend of mine who has _30 days_ played on their character hasn't even gotten a single ability point yet, and they're as active as can be, last I was told, and I think that is a problem. A lot of things should be spread more evenly throughout the game, I feel, all of the real awesome stuff comes late game - which sure, makes sense, but we're here to roleplay people off on their own adventures, experiencing new things, and to me, my biggest sense of boredom was that..well, I was _DOING_ the same thing over and over again, and if I tried to go off to explore, well, it was most assuredly result in death (Even when I went with groups, i saw plenty of things, but often, all I could do was sit in the back and watch because my character was so weak they'd die instantly otherwise) <-- and this isn't fun for anyone.

ANother issue i have, and I know its probably perhaps somewhat lorebased, is the extremely, and I mean _EXTREMELY_ white and black good vs evil going on.

I honestly found it quite impossible to be someone who was nether good nor bad because the moment my characters dietiy, (Asral) was mentioned, a large majority of people that are say, tannites, are like .. omg ur bad!! Warmonger! and this to me just chased me away becuase there was litereal no attempt at story, just finger pointing and a unending .. thirst for creating conflict, that said - back then, geas had much fewer players then I see that are around online now.

I play games to have fun (And I hope you all do, otheriwse.. thats kinda weird :shock: :shock: ) and I want to have fun on this game, but its quite hard to when everything seems so far, far away. I love fantasy, and my biggest love of that is the magical nature of it, and that part of the game world (not just as mages) seems to be extremely gated or hard to get to. I dont have the time commit hours upon hours to this game.

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Arsicas
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Re: Heya, My thoughts on geas

Postby Arsicas » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:21 am

Nylessa wrote:I feel, all of the real awesome stuff comes late game - which sure, makes sense, but we're here to roleplay people off on their own adventures, experiencing new things, and to me, my biggest sense of boredom was that..well, I was _DOING_ the same thing over and over again, and if I tried to go off to explore, well, it was most assuredly result in death (Even when I went with groups, i saw plenty of things, but often, all I could do was sit in the back and watch because my character was so weak they'd die instantly otherwise) <-- and this isn't fun for anyone.

Yeah, I've felt that way too. I've wanted to start some interesting rp, but I had to wait until my character was strong enough. And it did get dull doing the same things over and over again. I feel at least now we seem to have more players around to interact with so if you're tired of the grinding you can just hang around and rp. But it is quite a lot of grinding to get to a decent place where you're not helpless. And some players have more time to spend than others, so casual players do have a disadvantage.

Nylessa wrote:ANother issue i have, and I know its probably perhaps somewhat lorebased, is the extremely, and I mean _EXTREMELY_ white and black good vs evil going on.

I know some people like the extreme good vs. evil and others like playing more neutral characters. I think currently in game there are many more Asrals, so you may have an easier time. ;) I think conflict is good but that it shouldn't always be pvp conflict. I've managed to have decent conversations with Asralites on Gwen vs. Asral, so maybe it depends upon the people you come across. :)

That said, some paths you take are going to be destined for conflict. If you play a death priest, you can expect that a number of people will not like you just for that fact. And perhaps the time you are speaking about is when there was a war between Tanielites/Elvandar and Asrals, so that might explain people being a bit more jumpy.

I do think as far as magic goes it does require a lot of commitment currently. There's still minor magic you can access fairly easily as an alchemist or skald, which can be useful. And clerics have their own kind of "magic" in the form of miracles. It's been discussed whether the requirements for joining the mages need to be adjusted, so it is something that is being looked at. What is it you enjoy most about the magical aspects? Perhaps there are things you can still enjoy that don't require the huge commitment? I think Geas does take more of an esoteric approach to magic, so part of the difficulty may be built into the gameworld, but I do think it shouldn't be so lofty of a goal that only players with extreme hours devoted can access it.
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Nylessa
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Re: Heya, My thoughts on geas

Postby Nylessa » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:20 am

Arsicas wrote:
Nylessa wrote:I feel, all of the real awesome stuff comes late game - which sure, makes sense, but we're here to roleplay people off on their own adventures, experiencing new things, and to me, my biggest sense of boredom was that..well, I was _DOING_ the same thing over and over again, and if I tried to go off to explore, well, it was most assuredly result in death (Even when I went with groups, i saw plenty of things, but often, all I could do was sit in the back and watch because my character was so weak they'd die instantly otherwise) <-- and this isn't fun for anyone.

Yeah, I've felt that way too. I've wanted to start some interesting rp, but I had to wait until my character was strong enough. And it did get dull doing the same things over and over again. I feel at least now we seem to have more players around to interact with so if you're tired of the grinding you can just hang around and rp. But it is quite a lot of grinding to get to a decent place where you're not helpless. And some players have more time to spend than others, so casual players do have a disadvantage.

Nylessa wrote:ANother issue i have, and I know its probably perhaps somewhat lorebased, is the extremely, and I mean _EXTREMELY_ white and black good vs evil going on.

I know some people like the extreme good vs. evil and others like playing more neutral characters. I think currently in game there are many more Asrals, so you may have an easier time. ;) I think conflict is good but that it shouldn't always be pvp conflict. I've managed to have decent conversations with Asralites on Gwen vs. Asral, so maybe it depends upon the people you come across. :)

That said, some paths you take are going to be destined for conflict. If you play a death priest, you can expect that a number of people will not like you just for that fact. And perhaps the time you are speaking about is when there was a war between Tanielites/Elvandar and Asrals, so that might explain people being a bit more jumpy.

I do think as far as magic goes it does require a lot of commitment currently. There's still minor magic you can access fairly easily as an alchemist or skald, which can be useful. And clerics have their own kind of "magic" in the form of miracles. It's been discussed whether the requirements for joining the mages need to be adjusted, so it is something that is being looked at. What is it you enjoy most about the magical aspects? Perhaps there are things you can still enjoy that don't require the huge commitment? I think Geas does take more of an esoteric approach to magic, so part of the difficulty may be built into the gameworld, but I do think it shouldn't be so lofty of a goal that only players with extreme hours devoted can access it.


Jumping full on head into the lore of it, the discovery and research of it, treading into unknown waters and having my character define what magery/magic is in their own mind ,really.

ill elaborate more when Im more awake. Thank you for the thoughts!

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Delia
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Re: Heya, My thoughts on geas

Postby Delia » Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:14 am

Yeah, Geas is really different for casuals and full timers. Getting to the point you can comfortably experience the game with your character takes both time to grind and player knowledge. Being casual about it as a newbie will make for a long road to travel. Ability to play long sessions is a big factor too. If you can only pull an hour or two per session your progress is slow and very prone to distractions.

Usually when I play for an hour the most I can do is cast a few spells, travel from Elvandar to Arborea and back and perhaps talk a bit.

If you want to reach a certain place for your character it requires some singlemindedness from your part. Even more so if you want to do some of the non-combat stuff. Improving fighting skills is easy as you always have unlimited opportunities. Being casual with craft skills might leave you relearning degraded points.

I speak little of RP as the reality of the game is that if you wish to RP something, you always have to meet the grind requirements for it. The numbers are harsh.

Some RP is also punished by the game design. If you do not want to be an adventurous brave literate explorer you will face a higher wall to climb as you miss out on quest and explore exp and help from learnbooks. My own philosophy is that you should never approach computer games primarily as RP games. Unless they are primarily designed as such. Geas is not, nor most most of the MUDs are, IMHO. I do not mean that RP has little meaning though. Do not get me wrong :)

As for ability points there is some point at which they become visible. At that point you should have points as you get them from doing quests and such too.

I also agree about the polarized good/evil. I do not mean players but the mobs and the world as a whole. Evil is always orcs, undead, demons and rest of the obvious lot. Good is unicorns, rainbows and flowery fairie farts. Civilized humanoids do not end up killing each other for petty reasons as there is no wiggle room for random pettymys stuff. You very quickly end up hated by society and good gods and you are on your way towards Sathonys. Sometimes I feel that the societies are too enlightened for their own good and for the good of the game.

As for the mage stuff, Ideas have been thrown around about it and I hope starting on that path becomes easier. A few little changes have been added that will make it easier. Reincarnating an old character, improved intelligence ability and tweaked magic status gains from scrolls and wands all make it slightly easier. It still is a long road that allows for little distractions.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates
"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

Nylessa
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Re: Heya, My thoughts on geas

Postby Nylessa » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:47 pm

Delia wrote:Yeah, Geas is really different for casuals and full timers. Getting to the point you can comfortably experience the game with your character takes both time to grind and player knowledge. Being casual about it as a newbie will make for a long road to travel. Ability to play long sessions is a big factor too. If you can only pull an hour or two per session your progress is slow and very prone to distractions.

Usually when I play for an hour the most I can do is cast a few spells, travel from Elvandar to Arborea and back and perhaps talk a bit.

If you want to reach a certain place for your character it requires some singlemindedness from your part. Even more so if you want to do some of the non-combat stuff. Improving fighting skills is easy as you always have unlimited opportunities. Being casual with craft skills might leave you relearning degraded points.

I speak little of RP as the reality of the game is that if you wish to RP something, you always have to meet the grind requirements for it. The numbers are harsh.

Some RP is also punished by the game design. If you do not want to be an adventurous brave literate explorer you will face a higher wall to climb as you miss out on quest and explore exp and help from learnbooks. My own philosophy is that you should never approach computer games primarily as RP games. Unless they are primarily designed as such. Geas is not, nor most most of the MUDs are, IMHO. I do not mean that RP has little meaning though. Do not get me wrong :)

As for ability points there is some point at which they become visible. At that point you should have points as you get them from doing quests and such too.

I also agree about the polarized good/evil. I do not mean players but the mobs and the world as a whole. Evil is always orcs, undead, demons and rest of the obvious lot. Good is unicorns, rainbows and flowery fairie farts. Civilized humanoids do not end up killing each other for petty reasons as there is no wiggle room for random pettymys stuff. You very quickly end up hated by society and good gods and you are on your way towards Sathonys. Sometimes I feel that the societies are too enlightened for their own good and for the good of the game.

As for the mage stuff, Ideas have been thrown around about it and I hope starting on that path becomes easier. A few little changes have been added that will make it easier. Reincarnating an old character, improved intelligence ability and tweaked magic status gains from scrolls and wands all make it slightly easier. It still is a long road that allows for little distractions.



This is what I mean. I understand things being hard to achieve, but as a casual player, it makes it very difficult to, and honestly I think that casual players shouldnt be so limited in this way.

Wade
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Re: Heya, My thoughts on geas

Postby Wade » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:11 pm

Yeah, there is a very long grind for just about everything. A shorter grind period would mean big characters and potentially more conflict sooner... but I guess it comes down to how long the wizzies want people to grind.

Even after learning the ins and outs of the grind, it does take a long while (months, yes)

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Delia
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Re: Heya, My thoughts on geas

Postby Delia » Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:57 am

I think that "the grind" is a central concept to most MUDs out there. There is no escaping it. What is different here is the player perception of rate of advancement and sense of scale.

In most MUDs I tried before setting in here you killed monsters and you received a visible amount of exp and coins. You then went to a trainer and used those exp and coins towards your skills. You always saw how much you have to do certain stuff to get certain stuff. I do not think it was in anyway less grindy but you were lulled into the illusion of control.

In Geas quick advancement is possible, even more so if you know a thing or two about how stuff works. You can overachieve and do too many things though, which will hurt your progress and put yourself in a glass prison.

You also never have any knowledge about your rate of advancement and capability for learning which usually leads to pessimistic player assessments of their character's potential.

The grind wears you out as a player though. Even so some people swear by it. I see it working against stories and roleplaying but then again every coded system works against stories and roleplaying. However, I like Geas system as it aspires to be complex and follows common sense. It leaves things fuzzy in order you could just play and not stress about the numbers.

Though it always ends up in you the player exchanging your time you have to be alive for those "You improved your skill" messages. No matter how you spin it, it is a bad trade. Best option as a player that I can come up with is that if you wish to play, you should learn how to speedrun into your sweet spot where you can stop caring about improvements and start with the other stuff.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates

"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre

"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra


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