Mage Balance

[ferranifer]

I agree that magic needs some look at in some outliers for high level mages, but I'll also say that, in my passing 2 cc, the entire combat balance needs a look first before you have anything to balance magic against.

Agree 100%! Also, I'm glad to see you back Allalltar! Maybe you can be persuaded to drop by more regularly?

[Delia]

Just to recap:

- either remove or drastically reduce the impact of instant casts
- reduce the power of free casting but keep mantra power where it is.
- mantra system changes (initial suggestion mailed already)
- individual spell balance, spells should also include some sort of way to resist them when applicable(mage players can report)
- convert high end scaling to low end conveniences like success rates, mana costs and research speed
- all mana drained should not be as frequent(mage players can report substitute ideas)
- info about mechanisms affecting the guild on the guild ooc board to help players understand balance aspects better(players can help with some of this)
- some way for players to have better access to some magic resistance of some sort
- multitude of small tweaks suggested all over the forum

[Delia]

Started a thread about Magic and Armours in Ideas.

[iza]

I think with light warriors being as strong as they have been in game for as long as they have been its hard to pay attention to other potentially troubling issues. Maybe with armored warriors becoming a bit more viable at high levels perhaps mages can get some attention too.

How much attention they need is debatable though.

I personally don't know myself as i haven't seen it in action. However, I do know that this game has high damage done relatively quickly, you can walk in a room and be ready to perform a special, potentially killing the other person in a single strike. In just about any other game only assassins can do that and in turn they aren't that great against armoured foes for example. What there hasn't been in this game is the ability to control. There have been control abilities and spells in game like paralyze and bodycheck but they are woefully useless in pvp. Either due to having really short duration or thanks to the fact that everyone and their mother in this game can perform flickup at creation relatively well as long as they are not encumbered too much.

Personally I don't have issue with high and fast damage, hopefully armour and constitution will mitigate this much better now against physical attacks. What I would have problem with would be high and fast damage, that is also effective control. In particular if that control got to the point where a person get stunlocked or basically has no option of fighting back or running away so you are stuck there until you die.

I don't know if that is the case here, I really hope not.

[Delia]

Overall I think mages are relatively well balanced out atleast there has been an active effort. Mages vs fighters is usually a quick dirty affairs where either the fighter outright annihilates the mage or the mage comes with all spells active, hot and blazing and neutralizes the fighter before he can get the killing special off. This is how it practically works at high levels with mages having the handicap of not being able to critkill with their spells.

This said, mages have some stuff I think is OP like the web spell which is somewhat problematic as it locks targets in place into an inactive state but all in all I have to state that magic is not nearly as OP as I have thought it is given the sheer killing power(light)fighters can reach. Mages have very few ways to compete with that or at all and that is fine IMHO.

[iza]

That does sound problematic. I haven't seen it in action so I won't comment further though.

[Delia]

I have reported plenty and written extensively here on the forum about my thoughts. Granted, many of my balance points did not consider how powerful pure fighters can become which I had little knowledge of. All in all, fighters have such an advantage that makes mages team creatures which is pretty fine in my books.

As for web spell, it has been also reported and I doubt current active mage players will actively use it unless sorely pressed to hit the panic button. We all agree it is a bit too much. Then again, there is the flip side...How will a mage deal with a fighter? It will always have to be a rather hard measure as merely doing damage does not cut it. A mage first strikes with damage, a fighter retaliates with a special and probably kills the mage. Sure the highbieoldiemultisuperhyperplexcombomages will probably manage to eat a hit and slink away but if it is not a status effect that cripples the fighter the mage has very little options.

[Arsicas]

The couple times I’ve used the web spell in pvp, the other character has been able to break free before I could kill them. Of course, if I used a spell that caused bleeding or was more prepared, that would probably change the outcome. Mages have to juggle spell cast time and mana. And there’s always the chance you’ll lose concentration or your spell will end at the wrong time.

Fighters seem to go for the big crit, while mages have to throw all guns blazing or go for tricks. I think so far my pvp fights with big fighters have been pretty balanced though. I have nearly taken down two Sathos but also almost gotten instakilled myself. Ars is probably more of a fighter than most mages though. And a lot of it does come down to luck and preparation.

[Delmon]

In my limited PVPing with mages, it really seems being prepared versus not being prepared is the key for a mage. They are the ultimate glass cannons which when prepared can do crazy dmg and effects that spike beyond the capabilities of fighters. However, due to their mental requirements they will suffer from high dmg hits and crits as expected.

[iza]

It does sound powerful on paper. But a lot of things sound powerful on paper, when in fact they are really only useful in certain situations against certain people.

I will trust staff will be keeping an eye on it and tweaking if needed.

I myself would only say some change is needed if its keeping pure warrior with orders of experience above the mage or prepared buffs themselves (ex. full blood) from walking in popping the mage's head like a bad zit. But same level mage/warrior where mage is prepared and warrior is not, sounds okay so far.