Elor

[Lauriert]

So, currently there's a problem. Theoretically, a death priest can get into Elor by dumping coins at a beggar, because it's karma based. That's... so easy to abuse. I don't know about you, but I don't think Evren would ever let any Lilithians or Sathonites into Elor under any circumstances, regardless of what their karma is.

[Melendil]

I think favour also plays a part, no?

[Lauriert]

I don't think it does. Until recently, Elor was the only place to sacrifice to Evren. So favour locking someone out... makes little sense.

[Ottarr]

Karma cheesing is a lame way to get into elor if that's how it works.

What other ways to make elor raidable could there be? Maybe with high enough evil favout you could overpower the entry method (with help from your evil deity of choice of course but have a debuff while on elor

[Arsicas]

So, currently there's a problem. Theoretically, a death priest can get into Elor by dumping coins at a beggar, because it's karma based. That's... so easy to abuse. I don't know about you, but I don't think Evren would ever let any Lilithians or Sathonites into Elor under any circumstances, regardless of what their karma is.

I'm going to assume that, while this is theoretically possible, it's not really feasible or desirable. I mean, I guess it would be super easy to murder a bunch of people and drop your karma back down to black again, hehe. But to cheese it just to get into Elor seems a bit silly. And yes, it seems like Evren wouldn't let a Sathonite or Lilithian in no matter how shiny their karma is. However, the gate is breakable, so it seems there at least should be some way for evils to get into Elor. I'd hope that cheesing the karma system isn't the only way? But don't want to get into spoiler territory.

In short, I think there should be a way for evils to break into Elor without doing any karma shenanigans (and it seems there is?).

[Delmon]

You can get in with force anyways, so I am not understanding the issue? I doubt a sathonys cleric is not going to have great karma or look to abuse it this way, or even if they did, what the benefit would be.

[Lauriert]

You can break down the gate, yes. But you still have to use the circle to warp to Elor. The gate has a higher karma requirement than the circle, so it's possible the gate will reject you but the circle won't. In that case, you can break the gate and then use the stone to warp if your karma is between the two.

[louis]

So, currently there's a problem. Theoretically, a death priest can get into Elor by dumping coins at a beggar, because it's karma based. That's... so easy to abuse. I don't know about you, but I don't think Evren would ever let any Lilithians or Sathonites into Elor under any circumstances, regardless of what their karma is.

This would be worth a bug report in my eyes, not so necessarily a forum discussion. But are you sure about this assumption? I just read the code and I believe I read something different at first glance. <3

[Lauriert]

So, currently there's a problem. Theoretically, a death priest can get into Elor by dumping coins at a beggar, because it's karma based. That's... so easy to abuse. I don't know about you, but I don't think Evren would ever let any Lilithians or Sathonites into Elor under any circumstances, regardless of what their karma is.

This would be worth a bug report in my eyes, not so necessarily a forum discussion. But are you sure about this assumption? I just read the code and I believe I read something different at first glance. <3

Well this is about something that happened IC where everyone in Elor was found killed and butchered, which would seem to suggest a death priest was there. This discussion more or less is to discuss the way the karma mechanic is working here.

Edit: It's possible people completely misunderstand what happened, and this act was committed by someone who had no history of darkness. Even so, the point still stands unless there is indeed something in the code barring Sathonites and Lilithians unconditionally.

[louis]

... which would seem to suggest a death priest was there ...

Would be a bug -> report pls, then we will check this these days, its late, maybe I missed something at first sight

EDIT: COULD be a bug - intrusion by force would of course still be possible .. but we'll doublecheck this karma theory if we get something

[ceinna]

There are ways into Elor as a death priest. It just has not happened in a very long time. I know there were Sathonytes of old who did it, and it is still possible even if it happens rarely.

[ferranifer]

Should there be an area of the game where it's impossible to enter based on things like karma or deity? (This are highly malleable things that don't require commitment).

I hope Elor can in fact be breached, considering the little to no commitment one has to submit to to enter, specially now that there is a way to obtain Evren favour outside of Elor. You can join and leave the Evren religion at will, granting you access to a incredibly strong safe area and there is no repercussions from leaving Evren as a religion. This is unlike what any other guild/religion/faction of the game can do. The other most "inexpugnable" areas of the game require at least:

• A persistant social commitment that you cannot easily break.
• Straight out belonging to a guild. See the previous point.

[Allalltar]

Just popping in, saying that

a) there's definitely a way into Elor. If I were not in hiatus I may care to check how difficult that currently is, it was in the past said as being too hard, but there is a way. Balance is questionable but it has been done in the past, even by single people.

b) there's a karma -and- faith check on the gate, karma alone won't gain you entrance. Historically that included gwen, as when we introduced Elor, there was no gwen shrine and gwen followers had to resurrect at the taniel temple, which was difficult for them. I later removed the gwen ability to open the gate, but there may remnants of that left in.

[Arsicas]

So, it seems they were able to get through just fine after breaking down the gate. Not sure if a bug was involved, cause I've definitely seen people flung over the gate before for having too low karma.

One suggestion some of us had after discussion was to have a maze between the entrance and the shore with the potential to get lost in the mist and have to start back at the beginning. Those with good karma can still use the stone to teleport and not have to navigate the maze. But in this way, there is still a way to get through to Elor if you're a baddie or don't have stellar karma, it's just time-consuming and potentially frustrating. Not sure what the current way into Elor you mentioned is Allalltar, or if breaking down the gate is what you meant. But this is just an idea.