Thieves den

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Devi · #21 Post by **Devi** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 2:41 pm

"you will find that we didnt even try to find the thieves den, or we didnt care too, until the thieves were constantly stealing from us."

If I understand this correctly, you knew oocly about the thieves, and then when you became oocly annoyed by the thieves, your characters suddenly icly discovered the guild?

This seems a bit sloppy, if you ask me.

jezz · #22 Post by **jezz** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:51 pm

Not to mention, that at the entrance of crusader castle, you can see some people hanging from crosses with signs saying "THIEF". So I think crusaders were also created to fight against such groups of people.

But then we hear Blizt saying crusaders didn't care about thieves at all... You leave me be and I let you be? Hmmmm, then who hunts, kills and shows in hanging crosses all those darkelves?

Devi · #23 Post by **Devi** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:19 pm

My point was more about the ooc/ic bit. Characters shouldn't magically discover something icly because their players are annoyed. If I know where the new (fictional) super-secret Shaolin temple is, for example, and Devi doesn't (but I want her to find out), it's not very fair to have her "stumble upon" it.

Players always know more than their characters (through ooc gossip, playing other characters, etc.), so it's really important to always be considering this. I don't know how everything started, exactly, so I'm most likely (and hopefully) wrong. I'm basing my assumption on the posts I've already read.

I think Blizt was saying they didn't care oocly. I think he'd agree that if the crusaders knew icly where the thieves were, they would've raided sooner. Again, I could be wrong, so I won't put any more words in his mouth.

stilgar · #24 Post by **stilgar** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 5:42 pm

Hmm.. well.. I do not know about how crusaders discovered the thieves den. About Taniels.. it was found via searching for it..

Also.. do not know about the intentions of poBlizt, only another character, who behaved from the first time he appeared as an inquisitor. Wants and wanted to purge evil. He was stopped many times, told he is no policeman, nor a judge.

If its about titles.. I agree completely.. if its about people stopped him from direct actions..

also.. seemingly he is the only (active) Taniel actively searching for thieves. well..

Of course.. we can discuss about character intentions.. will lead to nowhere.. my point was the RP side

#25 Post by **Abharsair** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 6:21 pm

Devi wrote:Again, I could be wrong, so I won't put any more words in his mouth.

As already mentioned several times in the game, if you got proof or enough indication that there was foul play involved in finding the thieves guild, let the wizards know. If not, then I'd be very careful with public "assumptions", especially because such rumours can not only anger someone, they can also ruin his or her reputation, and we aren't going to just let that happen.

In my opinion the solution to the entire thing is pretty simple: stop the constant OOC chatter and rumour mongering (which by the way made some people turn off @chat out of frustration), and finally deal with it IC and with roleplay. That goes for both sides.

kaspars · #26 Post by **kaspars** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 2:28 pm

Abharsair wrote: stop the constant OOC chatter and rumour mongering (which by the way made some people turn off @chat out of frustration), and finally deal with it IC and with roleplay. That goes for both sides.

Yes, sometimes, watching few non-stop screens of OOC chat, I get temptation to do it as well.
Sorry, could not resist this offtopic ..

venim · #27 Post by **venim** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:49 pm

Just to clear up something that seems to be a bit unclear, the Crusaders did not find the thieve's den. A character from another guild had found it and told or showed crusader(s) the entrance. At least I'm nearly 99% sure that's what happened. As for Blizt's comment on not caring about thieves, I believe he meant oocily did not care. Crusaders defintely care about thieves ic. As for other methods of bargaining/stopping wars/whatnot, other than killing...while those other options always exist, sometimes they are not as viable for certain groups as other options. For example, the thieves are extremely rich on average and could buy their way in or out of things, or "persuade" groups to see things their way. Asral's have some influence because of Arborea, but the Crusaders are not rich, nor do they have a city, even though I guess Elvandar is close. Crusader's most potent and easiest method of persuasion and bargaining is to kill or at least threaten physically. That's why that seems to be the most used and almost only used method for Crusaders.

Jegga · #28 Post by **Jegga** » Sat May 06, 2006 5:22 pm

It's much easier than what you try to make it look.

Every person's IC actions could (and sometimes should) have IC consequences. The characters and their roleplay is not defined by the social OOC conventions on how it should be or not. It's defined by their IC actions.

So if the thieves have been stealing from everyone under the Suns and noone ever did anything about it.. well, I guess that means that noone has any strong sense of property, or you would have done something.., wouldn't you?

If a lot of characters knew that the thieves' hideout was under the city of Elvandar, yet they did nothing when they discovered that the Elvandar lockers and shops were being constantly pilfered by then... well.. I guess the city population endorsed their presence and supported them.., didn't they?

If the Taniel Church knew that some of their followers were thieves and had shady backgrounds and were in a quest for repentance... while they assassinated people in Arborea and, maybe, pilfered the city just as any other thief and did nothing about it, it's because the Church was either involved on those actions or didn't really care about it.., did it care about it?

If the den of the thieves have been discovered and destroyed and the thief guards showed up and anihilated the resistance posed by the city guard and the city does nothing about it... I guess it's because everything was a charade or an Elvandarian Spring Street Theatre Association performance.., weasn't it?

Please, stop using OOC as an excuse to not take action IC. Let's just not speak about the rumour-monging attitude. Play your character, act in consequence with your IC actions, and most importantly, _ASSUME_ the consequences of your IC actions. Stop the OOC whining too.

The thieves spent way too much time without being discovered just because of OOC pressure. It was so plainly obvious that they existed that the situation was just silly. You should not feel any repentance to ICly punish the IC actions of IC criminals, as long as everything came as well from an IC source, which I simply assume.

Your character does something, you get something as a reaction. The thieves rampaged freely, they get punished. The hideout was discovered by X people, X people will suffer it greatly. Keep everything IC and everything will be OK by definition. And please, push and explore all the IC implications of those actions as well. Explore why they were being hidden in Elvandar under the vigilant eyes of the Queen, the Taniel Church and the Alchemists. Explore why they have so many political connections at all levels in all the political powers of this world. Don't handle this situation in the most obvious, basic and plain way. You want roleplay, don't you? You want to stir the pot? Then stir it. There's a lot of shit at the bottom.

Hi by the way.

chara · #29 Post by **chara** » Sun May 07, 2006 5:44 pm

I think you've brought up some wonderful points, Jegga!