Separating IC from OOC

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vurdijak
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Separating IC from OOC

#1 Post by vurdijak » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:16 pm

Drake's post reminded me of this. I have been wondering for a while,
how do we separate the IC from the OOC effectively? It would appear that
some of us don't and some do, and I think its better to talk about the issue
here in the forum than anywhere else.
For those of you successful in separating IC from OOC, what are your tricks?
Do you 'get in character' before you log in?
Do you spend time thinking about how your character might react to certain situations?
It just occurred to me that a lot of us, probably including myself, could use
tips from the most seasoned roleplayers. In other words, roleplaying and staying IC may actually be hard for some people.

Also I remember reading somewhere that guild channels are not to be used
for OOC talk. This rule is often broken. Is this an absolute, or can a ranger who just got 'gore' tell the rest of the rangers OOC on the guild channel?
Just curious about that.

Vurdijak

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Abharsair
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Re: Separating IC from OOC

#2 Post by Abharsair » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:46 am

vurdijak wrote:In other words, roleplaying and staying IC may actually be hard for some people.
I think it helps if you use as little @say, @chat and @whisper as possible. Not drifting into non-game related chatter makes one's roleplay more consistent and believeable. Also, if we'd use a very strict interpretation of "OOC information" then each and every one of us who has more than one character is already using OOC information (unless of course you stumble with your second character intentionally into the same trolls and giants which killed you with your first character). However, common sense should make it pretty obvious what's illegal OOC information and what isn't. Knowing that someone is a priest of Sathonys because you met him with your other character is for example a piece of information you shouldn't use with your other character who never met that guy. On the other hand, I want to explicitely add that you do not have to play your characters purposely stupid and oblivious just because someone else might accuse you of using OOC information. This threat has often been used to bludgeon people into turning not only one, but two blind eyes to things which were extremely obvious. And that's just as bad as abusing OOC information.
vurdijak wrote:Also I remember reading somewhere that guild channels are not to be used for OOC talk. This rule is often broken. Is this an absolute, or can a ranger who just got 'gore' tell the rest of the rangers OOC on the guild channel? Just curious about that.
In theory you shouldn't use any other means than @chat, @say and @whisper for any kind of OOC communication (with the exception of the OOC area where everything you do is automatically OOC), but I doubt anyone would complain about an occasional tell or channel message which is OOC (e.g. telling people you have to leave due to an OOC reason).

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Kortha
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#3 Post by Kortha » Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:29 am

The hardest part for me is just remembering who knows what. More than once I've said something icly and then had to tell whoever I was with to ignore it because I realized that char didn't know it. Then again, I have the same problem with purely ic stuff, if someone tells me a secret and I eventually forget it was supposed to be secret, heh.

If you have multiple chars, it's easier to remember who knows what if you mostly play one at any given time, or have some kind of schedule like playing one in the morning and the other in the evening. Then if you happen to remember what time of day something was said to you, you can tell which char it was said to.

I've been playing my chars long enough to know who they are as much as anyone can know who someone else is, so most of the rp is instinctive by now. Though there's times when I know what one would do but I don't think I'm capable of rp'ing it, so those tend to be the times when I switch to another char heh.

One thing I've found useful in quickly getting into a char's head after a while of not playing it is to give the char a specific accent or way of talking. Usually the personality shows up pretty fast, but even if it doesn't you can usually make people think you're rp'ing better than you really are because the words are at least right.
If a squirrel is chasing you, drop your nuts and run.

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#4 Post by cathal » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:42 pm

I don't know to what extent I am actually answering the question that Vurdijak was asking and how much something else, but here it goes.

The answers so far have been either about telling apart the information you have obtained with different characters or information you have got in an OOC discussion, that is "how to play by the rules". I personally dislike playing second characters for this reason, it is very easy to make these mistakes. You are never sure yourself if you are "cheating" when you know a bit too much about the miracle your enemy is using because you played that kind of cleric once too. My "tricks" to these problems are rather limited. I do get 'into the char' before I start playing, try to develop a consistent ideology and personality for the character before creation so I would need to remember as little as possible and as I already mentioned, I try not to play several characters at the same time. I also try to keep some notes about other people and the things the characters know, but for a character who is active in many conflicts and with many people, this gets too big a burden very quickly (I still try to write down (or save the logs at least) whenever someone is telling stories about the past of their chars or something like that. They have put a lot of effort into it and I think it is slightly disrespectful to just forget it by the time you meet the char next time. ("OOC: Were you the one who lost his family? No? The one whose brother tried to kill you?"). I also try to play characters that are not too close to my real personality or ideology to make it easier to "get out of my real self". Additionally the questions like "noticing that all the thieves wear identical hats", that can be justified IC (They use the same tailor) or considered OOC by some are tough ones and I try to be on the safe side on these and most likely "play my char purposely stupid" in some cases.

To me, however, this is the less interesting part of the question. You do your best to _remember_ and that's it, sometimes you make mistakes.

The interesting part of the question in my opinion is trying to separate those OOC things from the character that are not really conscious, but something you have grown into and learned since you were a child. As an example one could take the reactions of people to "racism" in the MUD. As many of you probably know, Cathal is not a friend of darkelves. When I started playing him, this was not common and many times it lead into conflicts which were not necessarily IC in nature, even though they were played IC. Some tshaharks for example turned from "Me big. Me bash and eat." into quite competent debaters in this subject, using "big words" and "long sentences", leaving me with the feeling that the players took the subjects very personally. There are also many people, some of whom obviously very religious in RL, who refuse to follow the Geas Gods, but rather "The higher being above them all" or something like that. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I consider this "failure to separate IC and OOC".

These are however among the easier ones, since you do understand that you are having an opinion about something. There are however harder subjects with varying difficulties, it is hard to imagine some of the things you take for granted being invented merely some centuries ago. The concept of "romantic love" for instance, that romantic attraction is not only desirable, but also an acceptable way to choose your partner hasn't been a very common ideal throughout history. Separation of the state and church did not even exist as a concept until 17th century, not to mention equality between men (or men and women). Using torture against your enemies, torturing yourself to "find God".. It is difficult to remember which concepts are considered "bad" and which "good" and exactly for what reasons and how long.

Of course, Geas is a fantasy world and a game, and historical accuracy is not the highest priority, but generally there is a very modern feel to it. Most of the ideals and ideology are very recent, which in my personal opinion goes under the topic of this thread (which is true for much of the fantasy literature also).

I would like to know what people think if I tried to make Taniel church and Elvandar in general matriarchal. I have tried this and generally people have rejected the idea prefering modern concepts such as democracy and equality instead. In general it is very difficult to play like something was the "commonly accepted ideal", if other characters can always just say something like "Yeah, sure, dude. Show me where it says so?" Perhaps I should start a new thread about this subject (and actually try to do something about it).

@Cathal

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chara
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#5 Post by chara » Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:45 pm

I think that the difference between OOC and IC information is not something that can be strictly defined. It has to boil down to common sense. Geas is, at its core, a form of collaborative story telling. It's not something you win or lose on your own, and if you're not creating an interesting environment for yourself AND those around you, then what purpose are you really serving? If you let OOC seep in too much, then you are removing the fantasy and the fun from the game.

This is one of the main reasons why I dislike the overuse of OOC chatting in the game. If you spend the majority of your time chatting, you are not adding to the environment for others, and you are likely to bore yourself. If you are active and engaged in the game, you roleplay even with those who are not in your "clique," you help newbies (or terrify them, or whatever - but you draw them in), you find new possibilities for game play. If all you do is sit around talking about fluffy easter bunnies until enough of your friends come in to go and kill some whatevers, the roleplay and storytelling aspects of the game dwindle.

Geas has amazing possibilities for player-driven world changes, but those possibilities are underutilized. Far too often, players look to wizards to drive the action, instead of the other way around. For example, I've seen both the good guys and the bad guys complain about not having enough manpower - but I've also seen newbies ignored for days on end, with no attempt to even talk to them, nevermind recruit them. Worse, I've seen these new players leave the game because they found no one to show them the ropes. What a fertile ground for more help for your side, without wiz intervention!

Of course, there are going to be times when a wizard's help is necessary, and of course it's a good idea to talk about major changes in world history or direction - like making elves matriarchal - with an appropriate wizard before going ahead and leaping in. But many, many times, problems can be solved with some ingenuity and creativity, and that's what a game like Geas calls for!

I've strayed off the original question quite a bit now. My advice for keeping IC and OOC separate - keep your OOC knowledge down by not chatting around all the time. Don't overwhelm yourself with extra characters. And try to imagine how you'd feel in a strange city/facing a dragon/confronted with a potential plot against the Queen of the Elves/facing torture by Really Bad Guys, and translate those feelings to your character's background and upbringing. OOC, you know that torture doesn't hurt you, but IC it sure does, and not a whole lot of people are going to face it without fear!

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#6 Post by jezz » Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:27 pm

As an apprentice of the bad guy roleplaying, I'd like to focus on one of the last phrases of Chara, where she talks about torture.

I'd only like to ask every player to think carefully about torture and pain. I understand that after losing a battle, we are oocly upset with ourselves (lack of skill, luck, both, modem...) but if the other guy takes you alive, shackles you to a cross and tries to torture you, is not a coded thing. That char is trying to enjoy his time and make you enjoy yours too, because else, simple killig is much faster and easier.

I say so because in Geas, since I'm a baddy, I have met only one player who screamed, whimpered, begged for it to stop, etc. I also can understand that if a baddy is torturing you to make you tell him the whereabouts of your secret guild, is one of the hardest choices you have to take. Because your char is not god, he wants this to end, but on the other hand, you know that if you tell him what he wants to know, you'll prolly get kicked out of guild... and those thoughts are OOC, no matter how hard you try.

But not entering into such a delicate case, just for the overall torturing and such, please, PLEASE, try not to say again: "You can hurt my body or kill me, but my soul is intact, my god will give me a new body and I will become stronger to kill you".

If you are going to do so, I promise I'll play you my webcam and show you how I put my balls into nearly frozen water :D

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#7 Post by Naga » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:34 am

If you are going to do so, I promise I'll play you my webcam and show you how I put my balls into nearly frozen water
I'd pay to see that anyway... :wink:

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#8 Post by Abharsair » Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:31 am

I have moved the last two posts into the "Roleplay" forum since they weren't really relevant to the original topic and should be a separate one.

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