Newbies getting attacked

[chara]

Newbies have always enjoyed a protected status on Geas. Many things don't attack newbies that attack older players, negative effects oftentimes don't work on newbies, they receive special warnings, tips, and help like the newbie line. This has also been understood to be extended to the players.

We have purposely not set a long list of codified rules here, but rather asked players to use common sense. This is a great example when common sense applies.

[Blizt]

I agree with Vurdijak, there should be a lock on attacking any char under 1 day playtime, I totally agree. With that, add that no char under 1 day playtime can steal/attack npcs/and things like that. I am sorry, I have several new chars, and NONE of them have gotten a red aura by just sitting at the crossing, or doing any quests that werent evil. The ones who got red auras stole, attacked npcs. I would sit at the crossing for hours and hours and still not get a red aura, despite who was there, even talking with sathonys followers didnt drop his rep. I also totally disagree that a person can make a char and do whatever the hell he likes and expect to get away with it, because in every case I have seen so far, they will just abuse that. Like attacking another newbie with knee in front of the guards, then running away knowing the guards will kill the other newbie and hiding in the tundra, knowing exactly what hes doing. Thats just one scenario, but if you want to whine and complain about noobies getting attacked, then lets start whinning and complaining about all the crap the new chars are doing like that. Newbie or not, its possible for them to ruin the fun for others too. Also, the char in question that killed the other noobie by kneeing him in front of the guards and running away, couldnt have been more than a few hours old, he was almost naked and had no flames at all, he looked like he was created 15 minutes before he did that.



I would also like to add that the newbie that died to the guards, is new to the mud completely, and has had this treatment from other "newbies" already. They would run in the room, attack him in front of the guards and run out, so the guards would kill him.
There is a differance between making a new character and making a character to be an ass.
Also, I havent seen a Crusader kill a newbie yet, although I have seen numerous incidents where "newbies" kill newbies.

[vurdijak]

Blizt I agree with you on all those points, and I suggested that newbies not be allowed to attack/steal from other chars in my first post. That would put a quick end to the scenario you described above, which is totally unfair. I do not characterize these posts or this thread as whining or complaining. Instead I think its constructive to get this out in the open and get a real dialogue started about it, so that concerns like the one you listed above are 'on the table'. But your post gave me an idea...

When you try to go into the swamp, and maybe into other places, the game stops you and gives you a message. Maybe instead of making newbie killing against the rules, a person about to attack a newbie could get a message like 'You sure you want to do this? That person is really young!'
Then they could either back off, or proceed to attack. If they attack, a report could be automatically filed for the wizzes to check out. I think even this would prevent the abuse we are talking about.

Or I guess we could just keep it as is...maybe a heightened awareness of this problem is all we really need anyway.

[Blizt]

Yeah, I think that would be a great way to fix this.
Maybe you should have to be 1 log day old to do dangerous things like attack npcs/stealing and such. Or maybe you dont get a reputation at all until maybe
a few log days old.

[jezz]

I'm against beeing such a baby-sitter for newbies. Instead of an old char getting a warning with a newbie, it would be the newbie who should get the warning, and not if attacking a char, but a npc, specially with guards and such.

I like the skill it takes for an old char to know how to react and handle newbies, even if they want to be an ass. I had incidents with some newbies thinking they were "El Cid Campeador". A travel unconscious to the artic and waking there without a compass solved the problem.

And no, that newbies didn't die from cold

[Blizt]

Lets not forget this small addition- 99.9 percent of these noobies being talked about, are being openly evil in public. Examples are attacking Virle, Killing Faeries then going and sitting at the crossing, attacking other small characters for no reason. Whatever happended to PO Vurdijak I have no clue about, but I will be redundant and say no noobie char of mine has ever gotten a red aura, unless he deserved it, and then, I was smart enough to know I wouldnt be welcomed in public. When people thought I was nasty, well, I presumed that people that I was nasty and didnt want to be around me. A simple solution to an extremely over exagerated problem.

[adanath]

I would like to know the name of the crusader. Adanath found a small one who had red flames and he wielded and was going to attack in stunmode yet the little one ran away and mailed him. He was disfavoured by the lord according to a cleric and had red flames. Adanath is also very reasonable but not very smart he will attack young chars if they have done bad and misfavoured but he will bring them to the castle and talk to them about it. Tell them why they were punished and try and get them to be good and listen to Taniel. He is caring at heart.

[vurdijak]

To me, this problem is not an over exaggeration. 'If you are evil, you should also be an introvert' is absolutely not the solution to the problem. Its a way to grow an evil char., for sure, but not a solution to newbie killing.

Jezz points out that it takes skill to know how to deal with a newbie, and this is right. But unfortunately, not all players that get big and powerful have this skill, will learn this skill, or even care to learn this skill. As the mud grows, I argue that common sense alone will not be enough to protect potential long term players. In fact, the climate in Geas is very different from when I started only about 2 years ago. Not better or worse, but certainly more aggressive.

The best solution I've seen so far is that anyone under a day old can't have their aura checked. I think thats pretty much perfect, because if they DO something stupid, like attack an older player or a guard, they get nailed. But if they accidently do something that makes them red, and dont want to be, they can have time to right that.

[Blizt]

Yeah, making sure their aura cant be checked for 1 log day sounds very, very reasonable. Would fix alot of problems. Characters would get a chance to build their char up and do things with him before anyone knew much about them as well.


Also, can PO Vurdijak and Olrane please point out to us what noobies we have killed or attacked in killmode. I know in the instance of the Elf Adan is talking about, he didnt even attack him, and a cleric checked the elf beforehand. In the 11 months I have played, I have not seen one newbie killed by a Crusader. Olrane claims we have a problem with it, so I would like to know in what cases. Vurdijak claims a noobie was attacked in Killmode, yet, no one ever saw it happen. Not even the Crusaders who were supposed to have attacked him. The only people to be attacked in killmode by Crusaders lately are Olrane and Sathonites. If Olrane is the defination of newbie, then yes we have a problem. If not, then what noobies were killed?

[vurdijak]

I started the thread with the intention of addressing my own situation, getting attacked as a newbie. If I had been a real newbie, I almost certainly would have died, so I wanted to talk about it. Drake mentioned that he has seen a few newbies killed. I have heard about others myself.
It definitely happens, whatever your take.

As far as the Crusaders go, it was a Crusader that attacked me, but I think its everyone's responsibility to prevent newbie deaths. I personally cant think of an incident that a Crussie killed a newbie, and my intention was not to blame them, just to start talking about it.

Someone else pointed out that Jezz is especially good about this, and I know this is true. Almost every newbie I've played has been spared by Jezz at some point or other, and almost crapped their pants in the process. He is a good example of the common sense approach advocated above by imms and others.

[adanath]

Well we still seem to have difficulty in determining a noobie that was attacked. As long as I have been a crusader we have never killed a young player that didn't know full well what they were doing or refuse to change their aura after multiple warnings. Now Adan he has never attacked a noobie though he seems to scare them wieldling and finding they are evil, it is meant to be intimidating. He is a big dumb tshahark.

[adanath]

also, I think the reputation not affecting for so long could be a good idea, except a lot of people who have already played when they make characters have specific goals in mind that are evil and do them from the start. If they wish to pursue such paths, they are also wise enough to know there are consequences.

Also, try to understand the personalities of characters roleplayed. All of them will react different. Which is why roleplay is great it is realistic in many ways.

[jezz]

A quick warning, one post more saying that I know how to do something right and I'll berserk on GEAS killing even Abharsair (yes, I know the secret command to zap admins, an old bug from code)

About newbies not showing aura. If they are not told or stunned and tortured and threatened, maybe a newbie won't be able to learn the difference between evil and good, or how to avoid beeing one thing or the other. As things go, at least from the evil side, only sathos can exist currently (because beeing a loner, as I said, with 3 guilds currently actively fighting evils is not possible). And I can promise you no satho will kill a newbie if not strictly necessary.

So for the moment, I like the fact that such an important matter is left for us players to handle. We are the first from many to come So let's give example!

[vurdijak]

My char. doesnt know the names of the Crusaders, but it was a tshahark, I think a thick-legged one. If I recall the situation, Tatiana said 'Wait'. I waited and tried to say something to the effect of, 'I am trying to better myself' Then my char was struck and I'm pretty sure bled. I would have scrolled back but I was in telnet and couldnt figure out how (if there is a way). At least one person gave chase, but again, due to the telnet and to the frantic pace I was running away I couldnt see the person. I reluctantly sent a commune to Drake about it, and if I was hit in stunmode perhaps Tatiana could say so, but I am almost positive I bled because I remember trying to aid myself back at the skalds guild. The new char. is an elf name Farinthul.

To Adanath: If it was you that hit me, and you hit me in stun, then please accept my apology.

Regardless of the specifics of my own problem, I think that the issue has been well addressed by the thread.

[adanath]

I agree completely with Jezz and think he is right.

*waits*

*waits*

*watches the world self-destruct*

Ok everything better now.

Also as a point you have to remember in that Crusaders particularly a dumb Adan believes that in teaching people lessons for being evil, they can learn to be good, and he thinks he is helping them not be evil.

[adanath]

You really should review your looking at a screen for the char was never struck. Instead the character ran off before anything happened and ran to arborea and mailed that tshahark..*me*. I have witnesses if your memory is cloudy . I gave chase to try and figure out why the elf ran away, but unfortunately the young one was too scared and I never could find him again.
Though after the character ran Tatiana had just finished checking him and learned he was disfavoured by Taniel.

The worst I have ever punished a small character is one we whipped a couple times and then Adan talked to him so nice he decided to even willingly visit a sermon of Taniel.

[vurdijak]

Yeah i tried to scroll up but I think telnet only goes up a room or two, so I couldnt. Anyway, accept my apology if you didnt attack. I will also make sure to tell Drake that I'm an idiot.

[Blizt]

Yes, there was another Cleric who gave chase, to try to calm the situation down. He got a good look at the elf, long enough to remember his face and put a name he wanted to remember him as with it, as the elf ran to padorn. That cleric can also state that the elf was not bleeding. Also that Tshahark was Adanath. Once again I ask for one incident when a Crusader attacked a noobie in killmode. Since the players say we have a problem with it, I would like to know when it happended. When you tell us when he have done this, we will recognize it and I promise I surely wont attack another newbie. No other Crusader I talked to can think of a time when they attacked a noobie in killmode either, so please help us learn from our mistakes and point them out, since its stated we have a problem with it.


PS to po Vurdijak
Maybe you should set your ANSI colors to show if you are bleeding or not, I know they help me out alot. Even in a long scroll or fast pace, the color stands out and you can see important details you missed. I think this even works on telnet.

[adanath]

It is no problem at all. I know sometimes in the heat of things and when you may get attacked people get excited. I enjoy roleplay and that is how I play my character. If there is a problem then of course I want to be informed, but I think we should be careful before starting a discussion on something to make sure that it happened.

As a note of humour, Adan can't read anyways so mails don't do much good.

Oh and also, if you use zmud You can make a status window and capture your state to it each time hit or on certain timers. Just create a variable called bleeding, then make a trigger for when you get the message your wounds start to bleed to change the variable to BLEEDING have that show in your status window. It helps me a lot.

[vurdijak]

Well like I said, the thread was intended to start a dialogue and it has.
Even Drake said that he has seen newbies get killed, by guilds other than the Crusaders. So the thread is still relevent. But your point is taken, Adanath, I jumped the gun on accusing you.