Elvandar Scribes: A Collaborative Effort

[Naga]

Along with several other players, I have been involved for some time in an effort to put a public library and Scribes guildhall in the city of Elvandar.

We have long realized that this is a great undertaking, and there are many decisions to be made, including deciding a location, a general idea for the structure, deciding upon an overall architectual feel and common elements throughout the rooms, as well as maintaining an overall sense of continuity and a high standard of quality throughout all the rooms (there are quite a few in any layman's guild). It is more than any one of us players was willing
to do on our own, and we knew if we worked separately on different parts, it would likely not fit together---instead, we would be left with a hodgepodge of contrasting rooms that really don't fit together or adhere to a common creative vision.

Thus, we have decided to coordinate the effort of designing the new Scibes guildhall and library in a collaborative, democratic manner. Please visit, read more, and contribute at:

http://geas.de/wiki/index.php/Elvandar% ... %20Project

Could an admin please put a link to that from the main wiki page? Thank you.

[Abharsair]

Hmm, I thought the Elvandar Domain Lord stated by now a couple of times that there won't be a scribes guild within the Elvandar city walls.

[anglachel]

Then my note at the wiki-page is obsolete.
But i think a guild like the scribes can not be placed somethere in
the wilderness. The guild needs some support of civilized community
near by. So it should not be too far away form Elvandar city.
May the scribes should search along the road from Elvandar to
Arborea for a good place.

[tessa]

Hmm, I thought the Elvandar Domain Lord stated by now a couple of times that there won't be a scribes guild within the Elvandar city walls.

There's still a possibility of there being one elsewhere, right?

[Abharsair]

Sure, there are plenty of places allong the road, or hidden somewhere else, or on a tree, etc. The only condition is: not within the city walls. To ensure the guild's safety the scribes can always hire guards, so I don't really see a problem there.

[tessa]

Hmm, I'm sure there's a few nifty places we could put it. The idea of having it surrounded by the forest is nifty.

[anglachel]

There many places around Elvandar. But i think a guildhouse
hidden wide away in wilderness does not fit to the scribes.
The guild need the support of civilized city/community for
their work. So im my oppion on a place along road make
a sense. Or a the end of short private road that end at
the main road.

[tessa]

Yea, definitely not hidden away where people can't get to it, but I like the idea of it being along the road to Arborea and Elvandar in the forest.

The idea of a private road is good, IMO. I can't really see it being right next to the road.

[valder]

I think having a scriptorium in the countryside would be sensible. Monasteries (well known for their scribes) were often often set apart from major cities. While I realize scribes and monks are not the same thing, both would no doubt benefit from getting away from the noise and pollution of your typical pre-modern city.

I think an elvish scriptorium nestled in the light forest south of Elvander would be great.

[Naga]

I must say that this revelation, that a Scribes guildhall cannot be located within Elvandar proper, comes as a great surprise to me. Wizards have been contacted in the past, and this is certainly the first time I have learned that building within Elvandar walls is strictly off-limits.

This news comes as a great disappointment, as the Elves, known as a more erudite, philosophical, and scholarly race, will lack a great institute of learning within their city. Valder is correct when he says that institutes of learning are often secluded, and he rightly cites the monastic tradition as evidence. Building outside of the city has its own benefits of political autonomy, and if this is the way it must be, this is the way we will continue.

The wiki collaborative project is by no means off, and I will talk with heavily-involved players (those with characters who have financially supported the effort) who have spoken with the domain lord to get a sense of where we stand at the moment.

[chara]

When I discussed this situation with Raptor, I clearly said that the guild should not in the city itself. Raptor wanted an evil branch of the guild, and I said a new branch should incorporate all scribe members who can't get into Arborea, not just the bad guys.

When Deliah brought up the idea again, I wrote:

"I believe where the idea stood was that there could be a second scribes' guild in Elvandar, though it wouldn't be in the city itself. It would then be open to any scribe no matter what politics are going on in which cities."

When I asked her if any progress had been made about the location, she told me the idea about it being in the training hall in Elvandar, and I wrote:

"I'm not sure exactly what you mean - isn't that in the city of Elvandar?"

and when she confirmed it was, I replied:

"You do remember that part where I said you could build the guild in Elvandar, but not in the city itself - right?"

Therefore, I believe I made my stance on this quite clear, and if it comes as a surprise, Naga, I can't really help that.

I would be willing to have a meeting with heavily involved players, rather than conducting this by email, if that would be preferable to you guys.

As I said on the Wiki page, I could probably be convinced to change my mind, but it would have to take a very compelling argument, and also take into account why members of the scribes guild who cannot enter Elvandar should be excluded, and how to handle their cases.

Personally, I like Valder's idea - it's quite unique, and different from the scribe branch already in Arborea. If you want to incorporate the idea of increasing knowledge in Elvandar, maybe we could do something like a library there, where the scribes guild lends or sells books for money - helping them raise funds for their guild and for improvements.

[stilgar]

I guess chara has the point, and hope everyone else accepts it. The idea is.. access to everyone regardless of political stance. This was the original idea behind scribes, but well guild and Arboeran city politics were connected so that was changed. As long as a guild, shop etc. is located within a city, guild politics and city politics CANNOT be separated.

while ICly I agree on that, OOCly I shall say what already said in another note, characters should not closed out from different activities becouse of their alginment (while that obviously limits RP possibilities)

Solution: place guildhalls out of cities whenever that is possible

Of course there can be exceptions, like you ever intend to make a poison makers guild should only be placed INSIDE Asador

[chara]

In many ways, it's a less than ideal solution, because obviously a city is a great place for a guildhall in general. However, we don't currently have the playerbase to warrant a branch of every guild in every city, and I think we like having the politics that makes certain cities offlimits - so this is the best solution I can come up with so far.

[stilgar]

Here I have to hurry to point out, the new guild should be indepent in ALL meanings.. that means raw material sources. Without beeing able to produce raw materials needed for casting (raw material for books and scrolls) the whole place will be empty.

So either have to include a workroom for that or work out alternate methods for those raw materials.

[Naga]

Yes, that would be ideal... Instead of creating just another guildhall, create a self-sufficient intellectual community, something along similar lines of a monastery, a politically independent organization located in the wilderness and dedicated to furthering knowledge.

POStilgar is correct in pointing out that it will get nowhere without the ability to convert raw materials into books. In the forest, it will be a great distance away from the craftsman guilds that produce parchment, books, and leather. These things would be essential to the survival of the place. Would it be at all possible to include workrooms or at least some other means of accomplishing the same thing without rendering the craftsman guilds in Arborea obsolete?
Would it be unfair to the Arborean craftsman guilds that require membership or
guestmember fees to have another way of accomplishing the same thing?

As for the suggestion of a publicly accessible library in Elvandar, where copies of books can be lent for a fee, I am very much in favor. It is a brilliant idea and a suitable way for the future guildhall to both retain political independence and improve Elvandar as well, and of course generate a profit.

[tessa]

a work area for parchments, leathers, and books would be great. Also, I'd suggest having the guild decently near a mine so we can get the required stones as easily as furs and things.

Maybe possibly a small pond or something too, so we can get fishbones we need?

[chara]

I would not be in favor of letting the scribes suddenly do the same thing as the parchment makers' guild and so on. It doesn't make any sense to me that they should get new abilities because they have a new branch. They can still trade with parchment makers and other craft guilds outside of cities as well as inside.

If, however, you wanted to talk to the parchment makers' guild (or any other relevant guild), and negotiate a shared guildhall, where they also have rooms and places to do and sell their work, I'd have nothing against that. If another guild is amenable, you might be able to share costs while giving each other easy access to your trade goods.

[tessa]

I would not be in favor of letting the scribes suddenly do the same thing as the parchment makers' guild and so on. It doesn't make any sense to me that they should get new abilities because they have a new branch. They can still trade with parchment makers and other craft guilds outside of cities as well as inside.

If, however, you wanted to talk to the parchment makers' guild (or any other relevant guild), and negotiate a shared guildhall, where they also have rooms and places to do and sell their work, I'd have nothing against that. If another guild is amenable, you might be able to share costs while giving each other easy access to your trade goods.

I agree, it would be unfair.

I suggest having a portion of the guildhall "rented" by the other craftsman guilds so they can do business there as well. Despite being in the same building, they would all operate independently as they do in Arborea and such.


One question, though, would the craftman guilds be opened for everyone to use, or scribes of that 'monastery'? I have a feeling if it's open for everyone, it's going to turn into a mini-town kind of thing.

[chara]

One question, though, would the craftman guilds be opened for everyone to use, or scribes of that 'monastery'? I have a feeling if it's open for everyone, it's going to turn into a mini-town kind of thing.

I don't quite understand the question. If you co-build or rent a portion to the guildhall to other guild members, it would be useable by those guild members. Or am I missing something?

[tessa]

One question, though, would the craftman guilds be opened for everyone to use, or scribes of that 'monastery'? I have a feeling if it's open for everyone, it's going to turn into a mini-town kind of thing.

I don't quite understand the question. If you co-build or rent a portion to the guildhall to other guild members, it would be useable by those guild members. Or am I missing something?

No, I was just wondering. If we make a building for scribes, parchment makers, tanners, and bookbinders, I just see this turning into a little craft 'town', since people would probably start visiting it a lot more often than Arborea due to it being outside city walls.