Elvandar Scribes: A Collaborative Effort

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chara
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#21 Post by chara » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:45 am

In principle, I have nothing against that, so long as the little town is just as open to Sathonys preachers as it is to Taniel archbishops. Of course, then you'll have to deal with how to keep the peace. So I urge you guys to consider if that's what you want to do, or if you want to have a compound that's not open to the public but only to a couple of guilds (for instance, a solid square made up of four guildhalls back to back, with each guild having a separate entrance or some such configuration), or if you prefer having a guildhall for scribes only and will trade as usual with members of other guilds.

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stilgar
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#22 Post by stilgar » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:50 am

chara wrote:If, however, you wanted to talk to the parchment makers' guild (or any other relevant guild), and negotiate a shared guildhall, where they also have rooms and places to do and sell their work, I'd have nothing against that. If another guild is amenable, you might be able to share costs while giving each other easy access to your trade goods.
Well I like the idea, if that means scribes make negotiations with tanners and bookbinders, who set up a shop inside the new branch that sells parchments and books. Parchment makers and Bookbinders have no risk. No investment, while srcibes pay for the shop, it is only a constat market and a possibly good source of continuous profit. Meanwhile scribes who do not want to, do not have to care about parchment making or bookbinding. Easier for all guilds. :lol:

I personally like this idea more, than having my character involved into any of those guilds. I also think most scribes would just gladly pay for parchments and books a higher price if they do not have to "waste" time on finding raw materials, then refine and craft them. :wink:

Currently.. even if you'd pay for them.. it is simply not accessible. So yes! Let scribes outside cities pay and then get a sufficient source of raw materials inside guildhalls in a form of a shop.
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anglachel
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#23 Post by anglachel » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:53 am

tessa wrote:One question, though, would the craftman guilds be opened for everyone to use, or scribes of that 'monastery'? I have a feeling if it's open for everyone, it's going to turn into a mini-town kind of thing.
This why i said in one of my post:
anglachel wrote:The guild needs some support of civilized community
near by. So it should not be too far away form Elvandar city.
At the moment there no parchment maker and tanners in Elvandar, but
it would be logical that such craftsman guild are in every big town.
So if they scribes are near the mainroad, there should no problem
to receive this things.
The craftsmanguild scan open a branch in or near Elvendar, too.
Or the scribe guild get a special shop there these thing can be sold
by the parchments makers and later bought by the scribes.

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#24 Post by Naga » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:39 am

I am personally in favor of Stilgar's suggestion: a stocked shop run at the guildhall through an agreement with bookbinder and parchmentmaker guilds. Because of the relatively out-of-the-way location, prices would certainly have to be higher.

Stilgar, could you expand on your idea a little? Do you envision shops to be stocked with things automatically or by players selling them in a publicly-accessible shop?

Ideally, the entire thing would be player-driven, but the Arborean guildshops, which stock very little by default, tend to stock few player-produced goods. For whatever reason, players just don't produce things of high quality and sell them, at least very often. This results in a shortage of books and parchment for those who don't contact a skilled craftsman and commission pieces directly. Perhaps this would change if there is a shop willing to give a good price for good wares.
Last edited by Naga on Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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chara
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#25 Post by chara » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:43 am

Err, I disagree with the concept of automatically stocking the goods of other guilds. That more or less removes the point of having them (even if the goods are a bit more expensive). My interpretation of Stilgar's idea was a shop run (and stocked) by another guild. I'm not sure quite how it would work out - it would surely require IC negotiation.

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#26 Post by stilgar » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:05 am

chara wrote:Err, I disagree with the concept of automatically stocking the goods of other guilds. That more or less removes the point of having them (even if the goods are a bit more expensive). My interpretation of Stilgar's idea was a shop run (and stocked) by another guild. I'm not sure quite how it would work out - it would surely require IC negotiation.
Well, the idea of another branch was to give access to a guild to everyone. With limiting the access to resources, or limiting the access to places with resources we do not make the idea work. Really.. please think about it from this point of view.

Make an example:

There is a Taniel who is an enemy of Asral or a Satho or Lillith darkelf player, with the changes ahead not really welcomed in Arborea (the inhabited place with detachment of tanners and bookbinders) So.. he/she joins up the scribes outside a town. He/she becomes a masterscribe.. and.. cannot cast at all.. while has no access to needed resources like parchments or books. you see my point?

If you plan to make the raw material source so strongly dependant on any of the towns or places, it is really not worth to code the new detachment at all. Easier to declare all who wants to be a masterscribe and caster should make a character that has alignment acceptable in Arborea.

Why do I say that? You mentioned IC negotiations. If the Lords of Arborea or the judge, or the city commander, or arborean citizens who CAN join those guilds simply say ICly the do not allow parchment makers or bookbinders to trade with the new branch then it is a waste of time for players and coders too :wink:

Other possibility is to open a detachment of scribes, parchment makers and bookbinders in EACH town. that way we avoided the problem, but then again Scribes guilds can be also placed inside too. Already working in Arborea and it is fine like that. With this version everyone joins those guilds in the town he/she wishes and it is done.
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chara
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#27 Post by chara » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:34 am

1. You can haggle with guild members outside the town.

2. You can have a guildmember who is able to enter Arborea buy the materials and store them in a common place in the guild.

3. You can negotate with guild members from other guilds to open a branch in or near your new branch - as I suggested above.

However, you still have to deal with those guild members. You're not going to be able to take over the job of the parchment makers/tanners/gem cutters/every other guild in Geas just to make it easier to get materials, because that makes no sense whatsoever from any practical point of view. Otherwise, we just have one big guild, and everyone can do everything.

If you plan to make the raw material source so strongly dependant on any of the towns or places, it is really not worth to code the new detachment at all.

Of course, this new branch was a player suggested accommodated by us wizards. If you decide it's not worth it, that's up to you.

You mentioned IC negotiations. If the Lords of Arborea or the judge, or the city commander, or arborean citizens

I was imagining negotiations with the guild members. Why on earth would you negotiate with the Arborea judge *confused*

Other possibility is to open a detachment of scribes, parchment makers and bookbinders in EACH town.

I think I said quite some ways back that this would be a nice solution, but not currently one that makes sense, given our player base.

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#28 Post by stilgar » Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:47 am

2. You can have a guildmember who is able to enter Arborea buy the materials and store them in a common place in the guild.

And if he does not log, no one casts...

3. You can negotate with guild members from other guilds to open a branch in or near your new branch - as I suggested above.

This is also a way to handle the question, seems the most walkable way

However, you still have to deal with those guild members. You're not going to be able to take over the job of the parchment makers/tanners/gem cutters/every other guild in Geas just to make it easier to get materials, because that makes no sense whatsoever from any practical point of view. Otherwise, we just have one big guild, and everyone can do everything.

I guess you did not get my point... I want a playable scribes guild not to take over the role of anyother guilds or create one big guild to have access to everything. I only want to access to one single thing: casting mundane magic

some times ago the idea was to bind it to occupational guilds and those guilds were placed into Arborea.. think then this way..

Bind a guilds playability to another guilds accessibility... imagine Taniel clergy gaining their armours from arborea smithy , Asrals their weapons from Asador weaponry.. etc.

Well, your 3. point can hold the solution, so let us work towards that point, as I see that is the most acceptable for coders.
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tessa
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#29 Post by tessa » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:11 pm

On the bit about craftsman guilds, are we considering only bookbinders and parchmentmakers? What about tanners? We need the leathers to repair and make books.

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#30 Post by Delia » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:30 pm

Tanning leathers is a good craft to know...sadly the process is so more difficult than other crafts because of those rare swamp herbs. Do correct me if i'm wrong. ( Haven't tried tanning yet )

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#31 Post by tessa » Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:37 pm

You are correct, dragontears definitely make the job harder.

Though, I still think we need to add it with the other two, for the guild will definitely never amount to anything if it was ignored.


A note to wizzies - Was it intentionally designed to make tanning harder? If not, I'd appreciate it if more dragontears could be in stock somewhere, perhaps even at a higher cost than usual, or perhaps have a different and more common herb, so at least the craft guild has a chance. With it needing x2 more supplies than the other craft guilds, and needing the rare dragontears.. the tanning guild is almost as good as dead with activity.

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#32 Post by jezz » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:09 am

I'm ok with scribes beeing in Arborea, and alchemists in Elvandar, and not somewhere else.. or at least for the moment, until the playerbase grows.

Jezz is outlawed from both cities and guilds, and still he has got plenty of chances to get part of their knowledge or train their skills in secret. And with the new skill system you don't really need to be a scribe to learn as fast as a scribe does ;) Just that you have to "move" more to get the resources and knowledge.

I'll be happy when someone codes crafts in Asador... so evil doers feel a bit supported ;)

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#33 Post by tessa » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:40 am

jezz wrote:Jezz is outlawed from both cities and guilds, and still he has got plenty of chances to get part of their knowledge or train their skills in secret. And with the new skill system you don't really need to be a scribe to learn as fast as a scribe does ;) Just that you have to "move" more to get the resources and knowledge.
Gotta be hard when he chases a few helpful people off though. ;)

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