Religions

[stilgar]

I was wandering today about the religious side and the current system of faith in GEAS. I mean, each deity has its own area and if people act the way that pleases a god, their fath might change.

Question: How on earth can that happen, that less than 90% of the players worship Asral? Players mostly kill things on Forostar. So that is the realm of Sahonys and Asral.. that means in my terms, they devote for those deities. Yepp, I know about code, and also aware of the concept of Wizzies. But this thread is supposed to be a place to discuss about the morals, ideals to work out the backgrounds more. Maybe to change the ideals of deities, or the way a certai group of people act in the game. Why?

GEAS is unique, while it has a quite well worked out background and a quite logically built up system. I'd say a little discuss about these questions won't hurt anyone.

So, as a start: Evren is about life and creation, Gwen is about love, Asral is about war and death in battle, Sathonys is about death and destruction, Lillith is about Chaos and darkness, Zhakrin is about Balance and Taniel is about light and order.

How can Evren support the crusade? How come people don't convert to Asral if they fight that much? How come the Order created something to travel through it? How come they support a town? How come people don't care about cutting out eyes, teeth and horns from humanoid beeings, they accept humiliating the enemy by cutting its bodyparts, but they do get annoyed by skinning them? Why would they support building a fort in the middle of nowhere, with stronger defences their hometown has? Why would an Arborean noble or an Elvandar noble support with food or gold coins an organisation which is completely out of its control and mainly just weaken their own power (crusade)?

Again. This thread is not about code support and wizzies intentions with a guild. I do really like to discuss here about the backgrounds. I'm interested in the thoughts and the possible moral reasons behind certain things in GEAS. I hope, by sharing our thoughts about these things we might learn more about the backgrounds and the morals of GEAS, to enchance the RP.

[Blizt]

You forgot to ask how can the Shaolin exist when they are completely pointless. If they really wanted to maintain "the balance" they should not even exist, every time they take a breath, they are influencing someone, so they are throwing their own "balance" out of whack. One of the funniest things I have seen on the mud, was when I checked a shaolin master and they had red flames, and all they could say is "thats not right, I am a shaolin, I never do anything, so I must be neutral". It, just like everything else you mentioned, is something that has been pushed by the players. The players have sent their guilds in these directions, not the wizards
You have warclerics that are afraid of war, you have thieves that dont steal, you have Crusaders that obviously "Crusade" (thats amazing). You have shaolin that redefine balance to fit their personal needs. You once again mentioned the cutting of horns and skinning/butchering humanoids. If you cant already see the differance there, I am sorry. There is a huge differance between beheading a corpse and putting its head on a pole, then taking your nice, sweet time chopping him up into little, edible bite sized nuggets, or spending the time to carefully skin his corpse, so you can have a humanoid skin to add to your collection. Maybe if the players try to roleplay their characters more, and stop using the mud as a chat room, and use it for whats intended for, this wouldnt be a problem.
These are just my thoughts, from everything I have seen personally.


Also: if you read the history of the Crusaders, you would realize why the part you posted about them, just completely confuses me. All of these questions, are something you could find out easily, IC, since they are all supported IC in some way or another I believe, at least I know the part about the Crusaders is. Maybe take the time IC to ask chars about things, then you will know, if they feel your char needs to know.

[stilgar]

You forgot to ask how can the Shaolin exist when they are completely pointless. If they really wanted to maintain "the balance" they should not even exist, every time they take a breath, they are influencing someone, so they are throwing their own "balance" out of whack. One of the funniest things I have seen on the mud, was when I checked a shaolin master and they had red flames, and all they could say is "thats not right, I am a shaolin, I never do anything, so I must be neutral". It, just like everything else you mentioned, is something that has been pushed by the players. The players have sent their guilds in these directions, not the wizards
You have warclerics that are afraid of war, you have thieves that dont steal, you have Crusaders that obviously "Crusade" (thats amazing).

So we have a few more questions and still no answers. Its okay, as this thread was devoted to it.

Lets find some answers. Lets take the butcher thing: You say there is a certain amount of violence in Forostar that is tolerated, so its ok, to kill people and put their head on the pole, while thats "traditional". Ok, I can just agree with them as if you take a look at the European history, people did that too. Yet.. let me point out somtehing: they did a LOT more cruel things to each other, Jeanne'D Arc (simply burned), William Wallace(gutted then hanged) Dózsa György (gutted, cutted into pieces and his fed him to his comrades). Or can take scalping (which means skinning someone's head accurately) which is also originated from Europe and was common in wars. None of those guys comitted these acts were ever questioned. Yes, everyone thought they were cruel, and accepted this as part of the war, but no one thought they were evil.Nor anyone ever tried to set up rules for what's proper and what's unproper in war. When they did, those were generic rules prohibiting every kind of torture. And if you ask me, I think both killing people and cutting off bodyparts or otherwise be abusive to a fallen guys corpse is cruel.I tried to point this out several times in vain, I'll just respect that.

Another topic, as I think I was addressed in this matter. The shaolin: as far as I know (which is not much although I'm playing once since a relatively long time) the Shaolin greatly lacks the background history.

What we have currently as known background: two masters, Shao and Lin met, collected their arts and started out a new school: the shaolin. Builded the temple and started to accept students. Later on another temple was build by someone and was given to the shaolin.

Yes, if you ask me I cannot tell you what is the real purpose of the Shaolin, from that. And no, its not guarding over Balance, obviously not. If that would be their initial purpose their traditions would differ, like their golden rules would at least mention that Also adding the second temple was built a LOT later than the first, we can forget about that possibility as the initial role of the Shaolin. What do we have left? Turn back to the historical analogy: Those wanted to perfect their body and mind or just wanted to take a break, left civilisation to find a place of peace and walk their path undisturbed. Call that calmness, neutrality harmony of body and mind, as you like. Now that makes sense, yet that's usually sets up a passive role for them. Indeed, they might also want to avoid civilisation from time to time.

What they have in infrastructure perfectly fits that. Defenses setted up mostly against wild animals, not for war. They do not need really much support from the civilisation apart from what their members can offer them to maintain themselves. Their equipment is cheap, mostly made out of things you can find anywhere in the world.

About Balance... you won't find anyone who will be able to redefine Balance as it wasn't defined at all on Forostar If you ask me currently I know no one who could tell the role or the purpose of it or the purpose of maintaining it to you.

As the shaolin isn't defined by its written history, and as they can't be defined by their religion how you RP a shaolin? Throughout stereotypes taken from kung-fu movies? Yes, mostly as people lack any other role model.

[Blizt]

Its hard to believe a guild was implimented without a background
once again, I think the problem is the players have redirected
the goals of a guild to fit their own personal needs.
Unless of course, that is their whole background, then that makes their own goal to do absolutely nothing. Also it would put emphasases on the fact that they really wouldnt want to interact with anyone else but each other, and stay away from all civilized areas. Yet, you see them everywhere you go, so once again, they are redirecting their own goals or whatever to fit their personal needs. Is it possible the rest of history was just not passed down over the years so people could direct them and form them as they saw fit? Or are they really just alot of code put into something that has no point?
From what I understand, the only "balance" a Shaolin was ever supposed to find/support was the inner balance found in their own-self, so they could focus and use their martial arts and mental energies. All of this talk about balance I hear now, is just the religious babble about Zhakrin that says "if we do nothing, we are doing everything" which seems like a cheap excuse to try to ignore everything unless it benefits them only. Maybe they should all be Lilithians

[stilgar]

Seems like the discuss took a little curve, it was initially sentenced to religion and beliefs.

So I would gladly read some background discuss and historcial description about the curches to understand their place better on GEAS, as I can only partially agree with the point people should learn about them ICly. If we want characters with a well worked out background and complex personality, those general informations are needed I think. Also.. if something is implemented with a strong code base and a well worked out purpose, it would be a shame to miss that background philosophy or intention. Of course this goes only for common IC knowledge.

Can we learn more about Sathonys than "he is evil"? I'd gladly read some about that part. Also about Lillith, where did she came from? Deities in the Pantheon of Forostar how relate to each other? Maybe they are a family? Is there any arch God? Are there any legends about the creation of Forostar?

Why do deities bring back those devoting themselves? What is their use of that?

[stilgar]

Its hard to believe a guild was implimented without a background

I'd gladly read a written form of the historical and political background of the Crusade. Who found it and why? When? Who funds them? Why do they built their fort to where it is now? Why didn1t they emerged earlier? Why do they use lances and not hammers? (might sound stupid, but religious warrior orders usually put symbolical meanings into things like that too)

These are all backgroud informations would be nice to have, so we could really understand the crusade and crusaders better.

Same goes for the order too

[kaspars]

Can we learn more about Sathonys than "he is evil"? I'd gladly read some about that part.

Ask and you will receive answers .. but you should dare to ask
From the other point of view - asking does not mean, that you`ll always get answers, still it does not mean they do not exist.

Same goes for the order too

Quote from web page: "The Order was proud and arrogant towards outsiders, and they kept much of their business to themselves, leaving the people of Forostar ignorant about their goals and origin."
And you want this info available here and now?

Somehow, from all I saw around, there are quite fine backgrounds for Guilds. I believe, some of them were changed by players and time (only wizs know, if idea behind every guild is the same as intended) .. but they are here. Mostly problem is that we do not search for the answers, but wait until somebody will hand them to us

Slightly offtopic, but still ..

[stilgar]

This means Kaspars could write a catecism of Sathonys? As I guess each priests should be able to give explanations of happenings throughout the religion's logic. Am I mistaken?

[chara]

Have you read the background of the creation of the races and the adoption of man by Asral that is on the website? It also touches on some of the creation of the world and the relationship between the gods.

[Blizt]

Why do you need any ooc explantion of why any god/guild exists?
I am sure there are reasons all guild information isnt posted publically.
Possibly because its not for you know?
Maybe if you would spend time, investigating it with your character, you would learn more about it. Crusaders dont go around telling everyone their history and why they exist, its not anyone elses business, unless they find it neccassary to tell them. Why should someone simply tell you oocly why a guild exists? Why dont you just simply ask a character IC?

[stilgar]

I think I give it up here..

sorry for bothering you with this try

[Staltos]

Online forums are like feeding grounds for the hungry sharks which populate the vast waters of the internet.

In other words...never ask a question on one, or you'll get eaten alive.

[Abharsair]

A forum is the right place to discuss it, however:

1) Some of the information poStilgar complained about being missing is in fact available if he would research it IC. Those things just can't be posted on a forum or the website. That includes the background of the Crusaders or some other guilds. After all, a secretive organisation is no longer secretive if everyone can read what it's about.

2) Some of the information he says is missing is in fact... missing. I freely admit that. But then again, it's the choice of actually creating code, or creating stories. We tried to add the story where it's absolutely essential to have it, and otherwise focused on adding areas, guilds and features. You have to understand, if we wanted to add a detailed background for everything which is within the game and its relations with the other things, then we would need a wizard who is solely occupied with doing just that: writing the background. And unfortunately we have no one who is capable of doing that.

3) Background is constantly being added (Kyir is the latest example) but it takes time and has to be done carefully in order to not contradict other things. Plus, not one wizard alone can simply decide what is a true historical story and what isn't. Due to the fact that we have to be careful when adding such a thing, he has to consult several other wizards and again, that takes time.