War, death, and the meaning of life.

[isengoo]

Take away some of the Crusader superpowers and see what happens

[isengoo]

Seriously though, I'd like there to be some more appropriate consequence for dying. The other day I thought "why would a god keep resurrecting someone who dies so much?" So, the way I figure, if someone dies too much they could not only get the death vitality loss but also the god changing loss of vitality. This could be shown rather simply - after resurrecting after a certain amount of times in a certain period of time, the person would get a "You feel X's wrath! He/She is very displeased with your actions!"

[Zehren]

Seriously though, I'd like there to be some more appropriate consequence for dying. The other day I thought "why would a god keep resurrecting someone who dies so much?" So, the way I figure, if someone dies too much they could not only get the death vitality loss but also the god changing loss of vitality. This could be shown rather simply - after resurrecting after a certain amount of times in a certain period of time, the person would get a "You feel X's wrath! He/She is very displeased with your actions!"

Perhaps the dier accomplishes something the deity likes inbetween deaths?
Possibly, if you die ridiculously much something like that could be introduced. Ridiculously much. Elsehow I'm against it, as I already find my deaths unamusing enough.

I would be in favour of making death, from death to resurrection, a lengthy event, so you could not die and joyfully skip into battle and die again. Such a lengthy event should incoperate an amount of action neccessary on the character's side if he/she/it wishes to be brough back to life. Once resurrected again, the same penalties as today (or new penalties?) could apply.

Perhaps take a look here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1416 ?

[per]

So, you are essentialy suggesting a functional analog of a player jail where you can escape or speed up your process through your actions or those of others players (priests) ? Why not have jails? Discuss.

[Urlyth]

I dont like death either and hate it when working hard on getting fit again and getting 'favour' back with my priest for what he used resurrecting me.

However , having custom made items that cost an arm and a leg and are very sentimental too and the shortage sometimes of others to help you to retrieve your belongings especially if you know that Armageddon is coming up in the next hour the temptation is to go try and retrieve your things yourself and yes its a very high risk to go half naked and poorly armed in a weakened condition but then what option have you but to try ... and possibly it will result in a disaster or maybe it will just rescue your treasured belongings.

I hate death and feeling weak and being told that you will not loose an exp but watching your stats hardly rising when you are slogging your brains out to kill stuff and be as active as possible and wondering where 'this' exp is actually going. I think its punishment enough and should not be changed.

[adanath]

The vast vast vast majority of my deaths have been from being afk or being drawn away afk while fighting bigger mobs and in rare occassions players. This is a really old topic and one of the same things talked about again and again over the years.

Death blows, I have been trying for over a month and a half to raise my vitality back in the limited time I have. This was more about wars in which people would die, then come right back and attack again, rinse, repeat. It becomes very un-believable. I agree with Urlyth too, sometimes my repeated deaths hav ebeen when noone else is on..and I died afk or something and now I have to go back and get my armours because I have so much invested in them. Then die again etc.

I think death is good now with how terribly long it takes to recover already, just encourage players to act like it does matter ic when they die.

[Zehren]

So, you are essentialy suggesting a functional analog of a player jail where you can escape or speed up your process through your actions or those of others players (priests) ? Why not have jails? Discuss.

Not in form, but in function. Post-death jails.

I thought there were already a jail IG, though? Belonging to the crusaders?
I can see a jail being unused due to leaving someone there could, with bad luck, result in days of OOC time not being able to do much at all. 'cept wander around and turn insane. I think jails could be an idea if it would be possible to escape from them, without being neither to easy or hard.

As for repeated deaths in wars (die, run in, die, run in, et cetera): Isn't this the same as willfully chopping off all your limbs without any benefit to doing so?
It makes little sense... So unless you are actually ICly mad as an overcooked bread, don't do it. *peers around suspiciously*
This seems more a roleplay issue than something dealing with code, though.

[isengoo]

Solutions - don't get custom armours and actually roleplay feeling shitty after dying.

[Skragna]

I did something like RP'ing not being able to get right back into the fight with one of my characters. After I got mauled in-game, I quit playing him for a good long while, I think like, two or three RL weeks. When I logged back onto him, I RP'd him being in a coma of sorts, all a side effect of receiving a new body.

[Olrane]

Death is pretty punishing as is. If people aren't taking it seriously, it's because they don't want to accept that their roleplay should be affected by it.

I only recently recovered from a bunch of deaths, a good amount of which were caused by my shitty internet randomly disconnecting me in the middle of a risky fight. These things happen, and a more punishing system would only discourage further the people who are subject to deaths out of their control.

If you think someone's not acting the way they should after a death, send them a polite @whisper.

[arxthas]

I just wanted to add that I agree with the three last posts.

Harder penalties will not solve the problem. Possibly the system could send more tells about how your character is feeling and such to remind you constantly that you are weaker and such.. but the mechanics are enough IMHO.

I think the most important is that everyone set the example by RPing this way and start/continue good RP trends.

[lanyara]

Possibly the system could send more tells about how your character is feeling and such to remind you constantly that you are weaker and such

That sounds a lot like the shivers system. I am not saying that a system like it would never work or such, but for arguments why it did not seem to be too useful see:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31&p=122#p122

If you think someone's not acting the way they should after a death, send them a polite @whisper.

Only because someone else thinks anyone's roleplay is inappropriate does not mean or warrant you should be able to engage in @whisper / OOC.

IC actions are IC actions, there is no need to use OOC at all.

[fernao]

Having been on the receiving end in the current war I'd like to mention some things that really piss me off.

I died twice, got a limb removed once and two limbs broken.
Dying is part of the game, fine. But that i have to stick online for RL hour before I can ask a priest to have my limb replaced or cured just SUCKS.

In some ways, having your limbs broken or removed sucks even more than dying. I mean, having to sit stupidly around for 3 online hours before I can have a lost limb replaced? At an age of less that 10 online days that means sitting around doing basically nothing... great waste of time, especially if there is basically none around to at least talk to. Same goes for broken limbs.. over an online hour now and still not possible for the priests to cure.

Sorry, but that just means that I am forced to sit around and have to waste my time.

Such things really don't make this game fun.

And worst of all, at least most unfair in my point of view, is that Taniel player clerics can heal limbs or restore limbs a LOT earlier than npc clerics of the other faiths, so anyone on their side gets an additional boon.

[isengoo]

That sucks, Fernao. Sorry about your arms!

Also, I'd love to have the shakes back.

[dragan]

The problem already starts with the 24h kill rule. It does not help that you only may be killed every 24 hours, as it takes much longer to recover the lost vitality. Beeing killed another time while still recovering makes recover even harder and thus you will end up at 0 vitality no matter the fact that you only may be killed every 24 hours. It is a death circle as beeing weakned means you will more likely die again while training and so on. At the point of 0 vitality it does not matter anymore if you get killed or not, so the people that are after you will use other options for punishment. This could be removing or breaking limbs, looting and whatever comes into your mind. When you are at 0 vitality it does not matter anymore to die another time, so instead of beeing rendered useless for several hours it is actually faster to kill yourself and continue gaming. I am not talking roleplay here, that is another discussion. When death is no penalty anymore, the punishing party gets frustrated and will probably think of other ways to punish. While it may be fun for the dealing part to force inability on another player for several hours it is most likely not fun for the receiving part. If things cannot be solved ic, then some players decide to punish ooc - that is part of the game.

I am quite sure there is an ic solution for you to continue playing with fun, but there are people that are unable or maybe also just unwilling both ooc and ic to find solutions - this is also part of the game.

Do not get frustrated Fernao, you are not yet part of the evil circle.

[dragan]

Referring to Abh's original post - there are actually also wars that have no ic solution. Or no ooc acceptable ic solution or ooc solutions that ic are crap - or whatever. Well, I guess you got the point.

[Arwenth]

Having been on the receiving end in the current war I'd like to mention some things that really piss me off.

I died twice, got a limb removed once and two limbs broken.
Dying is part of the game, fine. But that i have to stick online for RL hour before I can ask a priest to have my limb replaced or cured just SUCKS.

In some ways, having your limbs broken or removed sucks even more than dying. I mean, having to sit stupidly around for 3 online hours before I can have a lost limb replaced? At an age of less that 10 online days that means sitting around doing basically nothing... great waste of time, especially if there is basically none around to at least talk to. Same goes for broken limbs.. over an online hour now and still not possible for the priests to cure.

Sorry, but that just means that I am forced to sit around and have to waste my time.

Such things really don't make this game fun.

And worst of all, at least most unfair in my point of view, is that Taniel player clerics can heal limbs or restore limbs a LOT earlier than npc clerics of the other faiths, so anyone on their side gets an additional boon.

I some what understand, which why I personally hate lashings because until the lashing heals you can't wear armour, and there's no way for a cleric to heal them that I've seen, which means my character gets to sit a room hiding so no one sees her topless. Half-naked She-Crusaders...Talk about punishing everyone at once...


In response to this I would like to toss out that we start RPing punishments and such a lot more. If someone is going to RP a horrible punishment that results in a lost limb then the time of recovery is at least partially spent doing something engaging.

Not to mention it opens other doors other than just lopping limbs off an leaving people sitting about. I put a post somewhere about coded torture ideas at one point but as it was said all of those ideas can be RP'd. Code support is great but we do have imaginations and opportunity.

That and I need someone willing to be tortured so you guys can finally learn what the inside of Arwenth's mind looks like

[luminier]

Alright color me confused.

I remember a while ago when people were getting upset that I wouldn't capture and I would just kill them. Now I am capturing people and they are getting upset that I punish them. Should I just capture people spank them and let them go? Sorry to give your gameplay a little bit of inconvenience but you -did- just try to kill one of my characters and I am going to make your life a little bit miserable. If you don't enjoy that, find an RP solution.

We talked about this Fernao, your character is young and I don't think you realize how much dying repeatedly sucks. It's actually so detrimental for a young character it is against the rules for an older character to kill a newbie.

Most times capture and punishment is the only way I can guarantee that the person won't come back literally five seconds later after I have killed them and fight me again.

[isengoo]

Maybe something less harsh than cutting off an arm

I always prefer breaking their main hand, makes it suck for them without sucking too bad.

[fernao]

Alright color me confused.

I remember a while ago when people were getting upset that I wouldn't capture and I would just kill them. Now I am capturing people and they are getting upset that I punish them. Should I just capture people spank them and let them go? Sorry to give your gameplay a little bit of inconvenience but you -did- just try to kill one of my characters and I am going to make your life a little bit miserable. If you don't enjoy that, find an RP solution.

We talked about this Fernao, your character is young and I don't think you realize how much dying repeatedly sucks. It's actually so detrimental for a young character it is against the rules for an older character to kill a newbie.

Most times capture and punishment is the only way I can guarantee that the person won't come back literally five seconds later after I have killed them and fight me again.

Yes, we had a longer ooc talk. And I stuck to what we had agreed apon. It was you and Matusalem that attacked my guild yet again and sorry, breaking BOTH of my arms left me to do.... NOTHING.

As for trying to kill you, we had been talking rather nicely until you stated that since we are at a state of war you were just not letting me go and then you and Matusalem attacked me. So, with fatigue preventing me to move at all, the only exits being blocked by the two of you, what do you expect me to do? Log out? I did the only thing I COULD do, go to mood defend and ask for miracles as fast as I could. And yes, after your IC complaint, I did NOT even ask for the miracle that had a chance of destroying your equipment.

As for dying... I keep track of my stats, and they were only slightly above of what I had when I joined the war clerics. Another death, judging from the recent deaths, and I am at or below the stat levels I had after leaving the newbie intro area!