War, death, and the meaning of life.

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luminier
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#81 Post by luminier » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:26 pm

isengoo wrote:Maybe something less harsh than cutting off an arm :P

I always prefer breaking their main hand, makes it suck for them without sucking too bad.
Breaking a hand and removing an arm has the exact same effect, except for the fact that the tortured person can still cast miracles with a broken hand. If thats all the person is doing, you pretty much -have- to cut/break their arm to get them out of the fight.

I thought we agreed that if I killed/punished you when you defended your guild you wouldn't have a problem with it, only if I hunted you directly. I said I didn't really care and I would turn a blind eye if I saw you alone. If you have no chance of escape maybe try typing "say I surrender" go mood defend and let us knock you out or meditate after we leave so we can arrest you. I know that if two people were fighting me -stunning- me it would be fairly obvious they -don't- want me dead.

I didn't complain about you using heavens fire at all. It's a miracle, it's part of the game, it is so painfully easy to avoid getting hit by and because of all that im not going to bitch about it. I know with my Asral alt I would use the same thing against a Crusader.

As for the last comment you made about death, I am not sure what you mean. Does that mean you would rather die? Or do you want us to do nothing to you? Again. Color me confused.
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#82 Post by fernao » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:49 am

luminier wrote: I thought we agreed that if I killed/punished you when you defended your guild you wouldn't have a problem with it, only if I hunted you directly. I said I didn't really care and I would turn a blind eye if I saw you alone. If you have no chance of escape maybe try typing "say I surrender" go mood defend and let us knock you out or meditate after we leave so we can arrest you. I know that if two people were fighting me -stunning- me it would be fairly obvious they -don't- want me dead.
I said I'd expect and would prefer to get killed.
luminier wrote:I didn't complain about you using heavens fire at all. It's a miracle, it's part of the game, it is so painfully easy to avoid getting hit by and because of all that im not going to bitch about it. I know with my Asral alt I would use the same thing against a Crusader.
Well, you named it as a reason to continue to hunt me, to have put me on your enemy list and as a reason for punishment. No using it I had hope to escape further retribution on your side, probably just a misunderstanding then.
luminier wrote:As for the last comment you made about death, I am not sure what you mean. Does that mean you would rather die? Or do you want us to do nothing to you? Again. Color me confused.
Yes, either leave me some option to do something, meaning ONE arm removed or broken or kill me. Being forced into sitting around idly starting to on my nerves to an extent that I am thinking on leaving this mud for greener pastures if you get my drift. To me it feels like me, being one of the younger characters around being harassed by one of the strongest around. That was also the reason why I tried to clarify those things in an ooc chat with you rather than run complaining around with wizards or the boards.
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#83 Post by luminier » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:57 am

I thought I was being nice. Apparently not. Ill just kill you from now on then. Problem solved? Sure I guess.

And I added you to the crusaders enemy list for setting me on fire as thats an attack on me. If you cut me, or broke something or set me on fire, it's all the same youll be added to the enemy list for hurting a Crusader with willful intent especially with the intent of protecting one of its enemies.
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#84 Post by Delia » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:14 am

Just a thought...

Usually people have been labeled as *GUILD* enemies bit too quickly I think. Most times around characters might have had personal quarrels(character 1 innocently tickles character 2 with a morning star over a minor issue or somesuch) but the whole guild angle has been thrown straight into the mix and things start escalating from there. Wars have started and collateral damage ensues.

I know there are, of course, completely personal conflicts out there as well but what I have seen it usually transforms into a guild war or a lynch mob afterwards. Any thoughts?
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#85 Post by fernao » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:34 am

From what I have heard and got told the problem in this particular war is that the crusade is unable to remove certain people from their enemy list. That forces you to either stop playing that character or joining a guild that is constantly at war with the crusade anyways. If you end up anywhere else, like Mona ending up with the Asrals, you are bound to bring your new guild into the conflict too.

Other guilds can and do remove those that left them from their enemy lists after either a certain amount of time or a certain amount of targeted kills.

So... problem right now is, Mona is the uncontested guild leader of the Asrals. To my eyes its extremely bad roleplay for me as a very junior guild member to neither defend my guild nor my guild mates. And additionally to all this, Luminier wrote a letter at the start of this war to all active Asrals telling us we would ALL be enemies if a single one of us would defend our guild leader.

So to me that just suggets no way out. All I can hope for is that I am not on their perma list, else I can stop playing immidiately.
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#86 Post by dragan » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:07 am

There are always ways to commit suicide Fernao. Even without legs, arms - a torso only and bound by a rope. It may be shitty roleplay, but that is not the discussion here. Some shitty things can only be countered with more shit. :)

So from what I understand the only solution to give the Asrals peace is to have their leader removed and placed in a guild that is at war with the Crusade anyway? Does that really make sense and would everyone be happy then? The roleplay of the Crusade does actually not leave much options, so the war is indeed senseless as the only goal to be achieved is to force the player to take an ooc decision and remove the char from the Asrals and place it in the Sathos. That would require some really shitty roleplay, but is of course a possible solution.

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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#87 Post by luminier » Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:59 am

Well if you defended Mona, look what that associates you with. You are now a person that openly defends a criminal who has killed the taniel cleric elf patrol outside elvandar many times, killed guards in elvandar (who follow taniel), killed crusaders, took part in the last war against us (giving us less tolerance for her), knocked down countless towers, attacked the lord marshall and attacked unicorns.

I would say in a crusaders book, if you are helping someone who has done all that - instant enemy status.
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#88 Post by fernao » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:07 am

luminier wrote:Well if you defended Mona, look what that associates you with. You are now a person that openly defends a criminal who has killed the taniel cleric elf patrol outside elvandar many times, killed guards in elvandar (who follow taniel), killed crusaders, took part in the last war against us (giving us less tolerance for her), knocked down countless towers, attacked the lord marshall and attacked unicorns.

I would say in a crusaders book, if you are helping someone who has done all that - instant enemy status.
And which of all that resulted from the fact that Mona left the crusaders and got an enemy for doing so? Action and Reaction I'd say.

Besides, all of that happened before Fernao started adventuring. Little to none of that is documented to see for youngsters. All I can IC go by is the fact that she is me guild leader.
Last edited by fernao on Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#89 Post by luminier » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:09 am

Im not saying it was bad roleplay for her to do so. In fact it was good. She turned away from the Good Gods, so she committed a bunch of crimes that she knows would damn her.

But she also would have to know that anyone aiding her in anything would be instantly damned as well.
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#90 Post by fernao » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:13 am

luminier wrote:But she also would have to know that anyone aiding her in anything would be instantly damned as well.
True enough and that is the only fault I see on her side in that mess, not ordering the youngsters to stay out but asking for assistance.
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#91 Post by isengoo » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:06 pm

The Crusaders are kind of jerks.

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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#92 Post by luminier » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:25 pm

I don't think I could've posted something that meaningful in my whole lifetime Isengoo. Really thank you.
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#93 Post by Desiderea » Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:38 pm

isengoo wrote:The Crusaders are kind of jerks.
Haha. :lol:

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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#94 Post by luminier » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:13 pm

lol everyone hates the police. until you're house gets robbed =D
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#95 Post by isengoo » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:03 pm

Not many houses to rob in Geas.

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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#96 Post by krelji » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:14 am

luminier wrote:lol everyone hates the police. until you're house gets robbed =D
The Crusade isn't the police though. They're just a bunch of religious
fanatics that think that free will is overrated. Considering that they tend
to ignore local laws at their own convenience they're little more than
criminals.
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#97 Post by matusalem » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:29 am

I think you all are taking that metaphor a little too literal. No, they're not police; yes they are religious fanatics. (Everyone in a religious guild should be a little fanatical. I don't want to see a priest that only goes to church on Christmas and Easter.) :wink:

I think what poLuminier was referring to the slaying of deathpriests and undead. Everytime Matusalem is awake and there are undead, I get mind calls and tellrings and the like. "Matusalem... undead." "Slay the undead, Matusalem." "Undead in Arborea, Matusalem." C'mon people, Matusalem can't slay undead; he sucks. On a serious note, the Crusade is like the Roman legion. They're loved when they defend against invasion, but a whole mess of trouble in their down time.

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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#98 Post by ferranifer » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:25 am

Maybe Sathos should just stop rising undead so everyone can see the Crusaders as the jerks they are.

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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#99 Post by Delia » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:24 pm

Might be a valid tactic - make them not needed around at all times and see what happens :twisted:
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Re: War, death, and the meaning of life.

#100 Post by krelji » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:08 pm

matusalem wrote:I think you all are taking that metaphor a little too literal.
Yes, I tend to do that - sometimes even intentional.
matusalem wrote: On a serious note, the Crusade is like the Roman legion. They're loved when they defend against invasion, but a whole mess of trouble in their down time.
Sorry, but my char would never love the Crusade being around. As far
as I am concerned the Crusade is inherently unreliable, because joining
the Crusade forces you to sacrifice your free will. Discussing with them
anything is technically pointless, since they don't have the authority to
decide anything. As far as I am concerned the other religious fanatics
aren't much better in this regard, but generally I would expect this to
be rather obvious for those reading my signature.
All knowledge is heresy. Yes, you heard me correctly.
It is the nature of religions to thrive on ignorance.

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