Sparring and specials

[caelia]

What are your thoughts on sparring and specials?

I'm not sure about the limb-breaking (or instant death?) potential of most specials when used in stunmode, since I just don't spar much. My sparring policy is often "no specials," but I'm pretty I don't need to go this far, and the players I've sparred don't always show similar restraint unless asked.

Impale/gore and hack/cleave, to me, seem inherently lethal, because they do require a solid hit with the business end of their respective weapons (and in the case of gore, twisting the weapon to maximize organ removal ), which is something one usually tries to avoid in a spar. As for the others, I've seen hard hits with headbutt and elbow result in knockouts, numb limbs (I think), and damaged windpipes, but not the limb break/limb loss/instant death types of criticals - but "rare" and "impossible" are two very, very different things.

Do the rest of you consider certain specials "off-limits" for spars? If not, should you?

[Minariel]

Actually, I do consider certain ones as "off limits," for the same reasons you listed. One addition, though. I won't usually use knee in a fight with male characters. Kneeing men in the groin during a "friendly spar" is grounds for them losing their tempers.

Disarm is always fair game, though.

[matusalem]

When deeming certain specials "off-limits," do you do so for roleplay reasons or mechanical ones? Mechanically, I really see no reason not to use them. Matusalem cannot even knock people over with 90-something level specials when in stunmode. From an RP point of view, it depends on how you see your character. Matusalem uses them in spars; gore, elbow, and knee. In his mind, he's already at a disadvantage when he can't shoot you, and to not do so is already showing great restraint.

[Delia]

I'm sure Delia atleast is of the mind that if someone pulled a "friendly" 'gore' on her during a sparring match you can expect her hands going for some nasty scrolls.

Ok, of course if the weapons used are specifically made for sparring such as wooden swords and such or blunt spears etc...using such specials could be justified while sparring with the intent of NOT killing, IMO. Not while using your brand new, shiny mithril two-hander and explaining how you just wanted to run your blade through your sparring partner for training purposes.

[caelia]

When deeming certain specials "off-limits," do you do so for roleplay reasons or mechanical ones? Mechanically, I really see no reason not to use them. Matusalem cannot even knock people over with 90-something level specials when in stunmode. From an RP point of view, it depends on how you see your character. Matusalem uses them in spars; gore, elbow, and knee. In his mind, he's already at a disadvantage when he can't shoot you, and to not do so is already showing great restraint.

I was talking more about RP reasons. Even if is mechanically possible to impale someone without actually murdering them, because the move ordinarily carries this possibility of doing this, a character not wishing to cause serious harm should avoid them.

If the mechanics work that way for elbows and knees and such - that is, when I'm in stunmode I'm throwing a "stunmode elbow" that is less deadly than a "killmode elbow" - I think that the parties to the spar can agree that this is okay, so long as the characters are mindful of the risk that something horrible might happen. Caelia would generally not agree to this, because there are so many reasons why she would prefer to avoid this risk.

So it sounds like I'm pretty well agreed with Delia and Minariel, and I will not be sparring with Matusalem.

[Minariel]

I don't think I'd spar with Matusalem anyway. One, I'd not want to lose to a halfling, and I probably would. Two, I've heard the story of "Let me show you a trick" and shooting an ally with an arrow.

[matusalem]

Yeah, but it was a really neat trick.

[luminier]

Crusaders tend to typically not use specials in spars. I really only use them to show off.

Minariel, if disarm is allowed i definitely get to slam you. =D

I think that if you agree no specials are allowed, no specials are allowed. Although that would cripple a Shao-lin pretty well. Maybe no specials are allowed, but martial arts are allowed.

It is impossible to kill in stunmode. (Some say arrows can kill in stunmode, but I am willing to try it to prove that it is false.)

If you knee me in the groin, Ill headbutt you out cold.

[lanyara]

Do the rest of you consider certain specials "off-limits" for spars?

Clawing, biting and tearing off one's hair. These things should really not be used in a spar. Also, throwing eggs or dirt is a clear no no, as is spitting into the eyes of your opponent. Last but not least, pulling at the ear - or even worse, biting an ear off - is a clear violation of spar rules. (In law-abiding areas that is)
Not everyone wants to be the next Mike Tyson.

On a related note, one question ... can "knee" be used in spar on male tshaharks to any effect?

Come to think about tshaharks, if two tshaharks spar then it is extremely unfair if one of them starts to pull at the tail of the other tshahark. That will just lead to endlessly running around in little circles.

Some say arrows can kill in stunmode, but I am willing to try it to prove that it is false.

I have no idea if they do, and I think a long time ago they did. Perhaps they still do.

Anyway, I guess one reasoning for stunmode not working nicely with missile is that your character can control the impact of a (melee/unarmed) blow to a certain degree. Like using the "blunt side of a sword", or gently batting the head of a target with a crude club, without breaking him in two pieces.

But it would be somewhat strange to talk to an arrow like this: "Sir Arrow, please would you slow down just a little bit and not rip through the throat of my opponent? I do not intend to kill him."

Sir Arrow agrees thoughtfully. Right before hitting, Sir Arrow considers just "stun"ning the target, slowing down, and sending the opponent into a deep, long slumber.

[luminier]

You don't have to draw the arrow string back as hard. Or you can use blunted arrows. These would both lessen the impact of the blow.

[caelia]

Come to think about tshaharks, if two tshaharks spar then it is extremely unfair if one of them starts to pull at the tail of the other tshahark. That will just lead to endlessly running around in little circles.

Lanyara, we've missed you.

[matusalem]

I've had VERY mixed results trying to stun with a bow and arrow. Nearly accidentally killed someone shooting a wooden arrow while in stunmode. They bled. So it may either be glitchy or intentionally unreliable.

As far as specials, I imagine with any organized competition, the rules should be laid out in advanced by all participating parties. I dunno.

[Delmon]

forget rules! (and forget that you have buffed earlier.... ) lol.

Szeven tries to ram his elbow into your throat, but you avoid his
attack.
Szeven studies you carefully.
Szeven uses a gap in your defense and smashes his armoured head into
your face.
The blow smashes you down to the ground.
As Szeven touches your skin the coldness of the ice layer covering it
spreads into your enemy, hurting him!
Szeven shivers.
Szeven falls unconscious.

You sit up.

You come to your feet.
Szeven wakes up.

Szeven sits up.
Szeven laughs.

You are ready to fight again.
Szeven laughs wildly.