Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

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Asraline
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Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#1 Post by Asraline » Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:22 am

Hello, fellow players.

As most people know by now, I have a problem with the 'introduce' culture. It's something that I've just never gotten through in my year-and-a-half of mudding and geasing.

The situation is the following: you're around there so tranquil around your usual plaza, grinding spot, you name it. All of a sudden, a stranger steps out and introduces themselves. Of course, you as a player know that it's a way to get somebody registered on the 'who list', but as a character it's still a stranger who comes and tells your name for the pure sake of saying it. That whole thing puts me off in a way you can't imagine.

If it was something trivial or that only newbies do, well, I could buy it - but it's something so irrigated in the player culture that it can't be ignored. And I cannot aim to change everything just because it's just me the one who has problems with it. So, I ask you:

How do I need to interpret free 'introductions'? How can I portray it so it isn't so upsetting?
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ghalt
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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#2 Post by ghalt » Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:32 pm

How can I portray it so it isn't so upsetting?
Imagine us as pokemon, helplessly chanting our names at you.

The introduce syntax doesn't allow any flourishes, besides the title, but a wordy introductory say doesn't flag us as introduced. It's kind of a cop out, but imagining the players around you as being more verbose may help.

Alternatively, I kind of think of it as scene setting in a play--introductions there tend to be forced by nature (and perhaps immediately followed by song).\

Lastly--I try to start a conversation first, maybe work the introduction into dialogue or whatnot, but if I'm tired you're just getting "yeah I'm ghalt." It may help a lot to recognize the other player may be up to late and under what I've seen other rpgs refer to as "narrative fatigue"--simply a bit mentally exhausted from staying in character, and not really able to improv anything that interesting at the moment.

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luminier
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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#3 Post by luminier » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:22 pm

Asraline wrote:How can I portray it so it isn't so upsetting?
Luminier really likes to regurgitate his thousands of titles and accomplishments to anyone who will listen. You aren't special.
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Wade
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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#4 Post by Wade » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:21 pm

Geas has plennnnty of mechanics that don't really translate well. I've found it best to just let them go and just accept it as the culture of the world.

Maybe in Forostar loud introductions at everyone you see is normal anyway. Everyone does it after all. It's like some Monty Python skit :P

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Delia
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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#5 Post by Delia » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:29 am

I have banged my head against the wall countless of times until I realized I tried to see everything as "too real and natural" - bit like in tabletop roleplaying games where you can just effortlessly describe things without any mechanics getting in the way.

It sometimes easy to forget Geas is just a computer game, and I mean with this that there are certain limitations that simply cannot be transcended from.

Translating some of the interactions in your head into something else or simply not giving them too much thought goes a long way.

You can always give weird looks to anyone who comes name dropping though. You can always invoke some mystique by hinting about the power of names and what unscrupulous mages might be able to do with them and whatnot.

Personally I try to avoid the introduce command as long as I can or work it into conversation somehow but the fatigue described by Ghalt is real.
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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#6 Post by Olrane » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:57 am

The thing for me is that I never want to leave a newbie without giving a name tag properly. Most newbies won't know how to remember a face, and even simple "tell person" interactions are made much more difficult without a name tag. So while I respect having flair and interesting roleplay in new encounters, I think that it's ultimately somewhat masturbatory to conceal names for long.

The introduce command, as I see it, is a thing that players do to help other players, not really as much an in-character thing. So speak your sentences as you will, but tag your name with the command.

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Delia
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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#7 Post by Delia » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:58 pm

A very good point.
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Arsicas
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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#8 Post by Arsicas » Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:37 am

The only thing that really bugs me is the people who introduce themselves, learn your name, and run off without any other interaction. But if you're chatting for a bit with a character, then it seems natural to tell them your name. Another issue I have is when I learn someone's name through their conversation with another person and remember them but forget that I haven't told them my name, and then later on I think we've already "met" so I never actually introduce myself to them. Or when I introduce myself to someone but they don't introduce themselves back... now we have uneven introductions!
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Asraline
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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#9 Post by Asraline » Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:33 am

Luminier wrote:Luminier really likes to regurgitate his thousands of titles and accomplishments to anyone who will listen. You aren't special.
Haha... How sweet of you. Thank you.

Olrane wrote:The thing for me is that I never want to leave a newbie without giving a name tag properly. Most newbies won't know how to remember a face, and even simple "tell person" interactions are made much more difficult without a name tag. So while I respect having flair and interesting roleplay in new encounters, I think that it's ultimately somewhat masturbatory to conceal names for long.

The introduce command, as I see it, is a thing that players do to help other players, not really as much an in-character thing. So speak your sentences as you will, but tag your name with the command.
Delia wrote:A very good point.
I don't think so.

Again, I understand the reasons in the player community. That's why I mentioned the 'who list' thing above. However, understanding the reasons as a player doesn't help me at all with this. My problem is of player interpretation, not of player understanding. And the problem roots precisely due to the fact of nearly all new interactions starting with an 'introduction' before any sorts of conversation.

In other words, it's not often that I get the 'chat and then introduce' scenario that Arsicas points out. And even when they do, they're often so forced due to the need of finding somebody else to play that it becomes upsetting anyway.

Ghalt wrote:Alternatively, I kind of think of it as scene setting in a play--introductions there tend to be forced by nature (and perhaps immediately followed by song).
Yes. I think this can work for me.

As Wade states, the actual mechanics simply don't translate well in roleplay terms. If your way of knowing who's available for roleplay is by filling a personal 'who' list and the most efficient way to add people is by using the 'introduce' command (which is the one that Inn people teach newbies, anyways), it's normal that you'll want to 'introduce' to as many people as possible. But these are the mechanics we have and we must learn how to cope with them. Ghalt's scene-play suggestion sounds appealing because it offers a logical solution to that. And a fancy one, if you ask me.
Nibbler: I didn't travel back in time! My people lack that ability.
Fry: But... I know you in the future! I clean your poop!
Nibbler: Quite possible. We live long and are celebrated poopers.

-Futurama

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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#10 Post by fernao » Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:26 pm

Anyone you met you can tag yourself, if they don't give their names...
Not something a newbie would know or do...
I sure have a long list of folks named like xfelf1...10, xmhuman1...20 or simply idiot1..100. ;)
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Israfel
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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#11 Post by Israfel » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:49 am

When I first started on Geas and learned of the whole 'introduce' mechanic I was like "damn, that is downright one of the most awesome gameplay mechanics I've seen on a MUD ever". It made so much sense in letting players explore and meet new people in an IC way and getting away from the style of play where you just type 'who' and get given a list of every person logged in.

But, I can also see the awkwardness of it now in some situations, especially when you are IC not the type to share your name with strange random extroverts.

Perhaps it'd work smoother if you could integrate the 'introduce' mechanic into a custom emote or 'say' command and use different types of intros depending on the situation. Something like #introduce# and #introduce:name# which could be added in to emotes or simply when speaking to someone.

Instead of the #introduce#, other people see the character's name, but it also registers automatically just like the current introductions would. And #introduce:name# would allow others to introduce you on your behalf.

This would let you blend it into whatever interaction you're having at the time the same way you'd use your name:

- The hard-eyed philosophical human rummages in his pockets for a moment before handing you a faded business card that reads, "Israfel. Hat salesman of Chrome Domes Arborea - Everthing a noggin needs!"

- The hard-eyed philosophical human says to you quietly, "You can call me Israfel. But it's probably best you don't speak that name too loudly in these parts."

- Joe gestures to the hard-eyed philosophical human in the corner.
- Joe says to you, "Mr Israfel would like a word with you, in private."

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Delia
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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#12 Post by Delia » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:53 am

You can "introduce someone to someone"

You can also "remember someone as X"

The system is pretty solid as it is. Only thing that is slacking is remembering someone who is not in the room. Like from a theoretical wanted poster.

As for the other stuff it is mainly in the interpretation of the text flow.

Say: I am
Introduce me to human
You introduce yourself as Mistress Sirfalas.
Bow slightly
"To be is to do" - Sokrates
"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

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Delia
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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#13 Post by Delia » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:27 am

Though condensing the amount of lines is always useful.

Say: I am *Delia*
(**, or somesuch makes the used word an introduction)
"To be is to do" - Sokrates
"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#14 Post by Ioca » Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:06 pm

Hey! This is an ancient thread (as most seem to be) but I thought I'd chime in, too. I'm a newer player, first off! I think I've played about a week now, or maybe two or even two and a half? It's been a blast.

I -love- the introduction stuff on Geas! But I've also already ran into exactly what Arsicas said in his old reply here, where it feels like, "I might have a fun interaction with this person," but with the overwhelming sense that "as soon as they get their name from me - which they're clearly after - they're going to walk off." And that's actually happened to me, too, exactly as described. ^^

I'm trying to be a bit more reluctant with giving my name out. My newest character which I intend to stick with is a lot less 'suspicious' of people than my old one, but I tend to give my introductions in actual conversations instead of using the introduce command. Hmm. I've actually had a lot of fun with quite a few people without ever knowing their name, or having learned it much later after developing a bit of a story with them, and that's felt -way- more natural and fun for me!

I wish the game would go over the "remember" command and some other simple stuff like that in the tutorial. I think it'd go a long way toward letting people know that they shouldn't feel like they -have- to introduce themselves, and that they don't -need- an introduction from someone in order to remember them on sight from previous RPing. I called one person "Elf Mage-Girl" for quite a long time, and another "Friendly Half-Elf" and stuff like that, and it worked out great.

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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#15 Post by Allalltar » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:44 am

Stumbling upon this by looking at new posts, I tend to see where this is coming from. Maybe we would benefit from adding 'remember' to the tutorial for people to grasp how they can generally work around others not giving them their name. If someone has any ideas generally making the issue of naming and 'unnamed people' mechanically easier, let us know and we can see if we can not make some adjustments to make these interactions a little less awkward.

Personally I could picture adding something like an 'introduce say' command basically like this:

Code: Select all

   introsay Grumple Just to let you know, I usually am referred to as Grumple, often called the wandering bard.
   You say in Common: Just to let you know, I usually am referred to as Grumple, often called the wandering bard.
   everyone knows you as grumple from this point on.
   introtell to Xuchal as Grumple: Esteemed smith, I am a travelling bard going by the name of Grumple
   You tell Xuchal in Common: Esteemed smith, I am a travelling bard going by the name of Grumple
   Xuchal knows you from this point on as Grumple if he doesn't. Anybody else can snatch your name from the tell and remember you, but wouldn't automatically know you.
Would that be something that would make introduce a little less... awkward for people?

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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#16 Post by Delia » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:00 pm

I like it.
"To be is to do" - Sokrates
"To do is to be" - Jean-Paul Sartre
"Do be do be do" - Frank Sinatra

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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#17 Post by Ioca » Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:00 am

I love that, too! It would be super handy. ^^

I think introductions are one of the most important things the tutorial doesn't cover also. Maybe an NPC that explains it could be handy? The other really, really important thing that I had a hard time learning about the game was doing like "2. item" or "item 2"! In a lot of other muds, there's no space between the 2. and the item, so it was confusing that "look 2.elf" didn't work. I didn't learn about "look elf 2" until way later, either. ^^

A totally random (and probably too long and difficult!) suggestion, but my idea is something like this in the tutorial area:

> north
a mysterious giant half-orc says: Hello. My name is... well, you don't know it, do you?
a mysterious giant half-orc says: Tell me yours and I'll tell you mine.
a mysterious giant half-orc says: Type ''introduce me" to introduce yourself to others.
>
> introduce me
You introduce yourself as: Newbie, the newbie~
a mysterious giant half-orc introduces herself as: Yrvirel, a half-orc
a second half-orc simply nods.
>
Yrvirel says: Now you know my name, and I know yours.
Yrvirel says: ...But I lied. My name is actually Minasi.
Yrvirel says: To correct your memory with this new knowledge, please type "remember Yrvirel as Minasi"
>
> remember yrvirel as stupid half-orc
You refresh your memory of Yrvirel as stupid half-orc.
>
stupid half-orc says: Close.
stupid half-orc says: But not quite. My name isn't stupid half-orc.
stupid half-orc says: It's Minasi.
stupid half-orc says: To correct your memory with this new knowledge, please type "remember stupid half-orc as Minasi"
>
> remember stupid half-orc as minasi
You refresh your memory of stupid half-orc as Minasi.
>
Minasi says: Good work.
Minasi says: Introductions are important so that we can remember each other more easily.
Minasi says: And so that we can understand who others are talking about.
Minasi says: Like this other half-orc next to me.
Minasi punches the second half-orc in the shoulder.
The second half-orc winces, and glares at Minasi.
Minasi says: He's mute.
Minasi says: I'll introduce him to you if you get that get the second loaf of bread from that shelf.
Minasi points at the shelf.
Minasi says: And then give it to me. Start by looking into the shelf with "look at shelf".
Minasi says: And then take the second loaf of bread from the shelf with "get bread 2 from shelf".
>
> look at shelf
> get bread from shelf
>
Minasi slaps her palm against her face.
Minasi says: That's the first loaf. Get the second one.
Minasi grumbles and grabs the loaf of bread from your hand. She sticks it back onto the shelf and looks at you.
Minasi says: You can use "get bread 2 from shelf" or "get 2. bread from shelf" to get the bread.
Minasi says: Both work.
>
> get bread 2 from shelf
>
Minasi says: Good job. That's the one.
Minasi says: Now offer me the bread.
Minasi says: There's a difference between offering and giving.
Minasi says: I won't take it if you just force it into my hands by "giving" it to me.
Minasi says: So offer it to me instead. Try "offer bread to minasi".
>
> give bread to minasi
You give the piece of bread to Minasi.
>
Minasi thwaps you over the head with the piece of bread.
Minasi gives you the piece of bread.
Minasi says: Offering is different than giving. I get a chance to refuse if you offer it.
Minasi says: So offer it to me instead. Try "offer bread to minasi".
>
> offer bread to minasi
Minasi accepts the offer and takes the bread or-whatever-the-message-is.
>
Minasi says: Good work.
Minasi says: This idiot's name is Bernard.
Minasi introduces the second half-orc as Bernard.
Bernard nods.
Minasi says: He's mute, though. There's no reason to know him.
Minasi says: I just wanted you to give me the bread.
Minasi says: So I can eat it in front of him.
Minasi eats the loaf of bread.
Bernard grunts.
Minasi says: You can learn more about introductions with "help introduce".
Minasi says: That completes my lesson.
Minasi says: Now leave me and Bernard alone.

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Re: Help: Blending in the 'introduce' culture

#18 Post by ila » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:20 am

You can also use second item or item two.

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